Is jesus God or God's creation

[ARav989]

My belief on the bible and all those religious texts are that unless it has some historical evidence it isn't true. i believe that all those stories without evidence are just moral stories trying to get us to live our life better. None of that,"oh hey if you live life like we say, You'll go to heaven." It's more like, "If you live life our way, you'll be kept under control, live a more healthy life, and you'll be a better part of society"

 

[navarre]

And why should the King James version be any better than the hundreds of other translations? No knows exactly what the original texts were (thanks to translation errors, copying mistakes, political changes, etc.), so it seems to me that no version can really make any claim to be more authorative than any other version.

Because it was the first edition commissioned in English. If it weren't for Protestants, we wouldn't know what the priest was (excuse the pun) adam and eveing about.

Here's a little mental exercise: replace 'Protestant' and 'Anglican' with 'Muslim' in that post. Makes you sound like one of those crazy Islamic extremists, doesn't it?

Not really, I count Muslims as my brothers. At least they don't put a man as head of their religion, and at least they pray to God. Catholics have done nothing but blaspheme, commit idolatry and worship the Pope ever since their disgrace of a religion was founded. When Protestantism was created, Luther expected every Catholic to folllow suite. Indeed, many converted in their thousands, and even to this day Catholics convert to Protestantism, the True Religion, especially in America, with its high Hispanic community. However, why an institution like the Catholic Church is still around today is beyond me.

 

[Napalmbrain]

Because it was the first edition commissioned in English.

So?

Not really, I count Muslims as my brothers. At least they don't put a man as head of their religion,

But you guys have the Archbishop of Canterbury...

and at least they pray to God.

And Catholics don't?

Catholics have done nothing but blaspheme, commit idolatry and worship the Pope ever since their disgrace of a religion was founded. When Protestantism was created, Luther expected every Catholic to folllow suite. Indeed, many converted in their thousands, and even to this day Catholics convert to Protestantism, the True Religion, especially in America, with its high Hispanic community. However, why an institution like the Catholic Church is still around today is beyond me.

Don't you Protestants have like, 80 million denominations or something? How it can be the "true religion" when there's so many different versions of it?

 

[Athronox]

God is a fabrication.

 

[navarre]

But you guys have the Archbishop of Canterbury

I'm not an Anglican, although any comparison between the respectable archbidhop and the extremely revered Pope is futile.

And Catholics don't?

No, Catholics pray to Mary, Gabriel and other non-divine figures.

Don't you Protestants have like, 80 million denominations or something? How it can be the "true religion" when there's so many different versions of it?

They're all very alike with minor variations. For example, if like me, shouting, jumping, singing lively modern songs and being filled with the Spirit is your thing, then the COC (Christian Outreach Center) is your thing. If you're more shy and boring, Anglicanism prevails. If you're the liberal type, the Quakers are ideal. They're all essentially the same with the same message- Jesus is Lord, and anyone who accepts Him shall recieve eternal life. Catholicism is more 'Mary is the Lord's mother, so worship her and recieve eternal life. Oh, and do what the pontiff says or we'll burn you at the stake'.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

But you guys have the Archbishop of Canterbury

I'm not an Anglican, although any comparison between the respectable archbidhop and the extremely revered Pope is futile.

And Catholics don't?

No, Catholics pray to Mary, Gabriel and other non-divine figures.

Don't you Protestants have like, 80 million denominations or something? How it can be the "true religion" when there's so many different versions of it?

They're all very alike with minor variations. For example, if like me, shouting, jumping, singing lively modern songs and being filled with the Spirit is your thing, then the COC (Christian Outreach Center) is your thing. If you're more shy and boring, Anglicanism prevails. If you're the liberal type, the Quakers are ideal. They're all essentially the same with the same message- Jesus is Lord, and anyone who accepts Him shall recieve eternal life. Catholicism is more 'Mary is the Lord's mother, so worship her and recieve eternal life. Oh, and do what the pontiff says or we'll burn you at the stake'.

I'll get back to you on this when I have time...

But for now, Jesus claimed that "only God is Good", NOT referring to himself. He is not God, and the Bible never says it, he never claims to be worshiped and that he himself is God, when verses are taken in the proper context. I will prove this to you later.

 

[Skippy]

...I believe people are inherently good. This conflicts with the available Christian texts right off the bat.

No, the Bible says man is inherently good. Man was created in God's image... and although sin and imperfection was introduced into the human family, that doesn't mean mankind is inherently evil or bad as a whole. It means we are incapable of perfectly imitating God.
We are outraged at injustice (regardless of human laws), we feel compassion for those hurt, sick, or wronged, etc. These are traits from God.

I guess the morality in many Christian texts always conflicted with my moral code.

Can you give some examples, I'm curious.

And why should the King James version be any better than the hundreds of other translations? No knows exactly what the original texts were (thanks to translation errors, copying mistakes, political changes, etc.), so it seems to me that no version can really make any claim to be more authorative than any other version.

Because it was the first edition commissioned in English. If it weren't for Protestants, we wouldn't know what the priest was (excuse the pun) adam and eveing about.

No it wasn't. Not even close.
More info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_bible

And there are known translation errors. Plus it knowingly and purposefully removed God's personal name (Yahweh/Jehovah) that was perfectly clear in the Hebrew texts it was based on and replaced it with GOD or LORD. This muddies the meaning of some things. The only place they left it was Psalm 83:18.

 

[PrinceLink]

They're all very alike with minor variations. For example, if like me, shouting, jumping, singing lively modern songs and being filled with the Spirit is your thing, then the COC (Christian Outreach Center) is your thing. If you're more shy and boring, Anglicanism prevails. If you're the liberal type, the Quakers are ideal. They're all essentially the same with the same message- Jesus is Lord, and anyone who accepts Him shall recieve eternal life. Catholicism is more 'Mary is the Lord's mother, so worship her and recieve eternal life. Oh, and do what the pontiff says or we'll burn you at the stake'.

You know the great thing about Christianity.
If you want to follow things word for word, there's a sect for that.
If you want to marry 15 wives and get away with it, there's a sect for that.
Even if you want to disregard everything the bible says and only want presents at Christmas, there's a sect for that too.
Yep there's a sect for just about anyone, only with Christianity.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

They're all very alike with minor variations. For example, if like me, shouting, jumping, singing lively modern songs and being filled with the Spirit is your thing, then the COC (Christian Outreach Center) is your thing. If you're more shy and boring, Anglicanism prevails. If you're the liberal type, the Quakers are ideal. They're all essentially the same with the same message- Jesus is Lord, and anyone who accepts Him shall recieve eternal life. Catholicism is more 'Mary is the Lord's mother, so worship her and recieve eternal life. Oh, and do what the pontiff says or we'll burn you at the stake'.

You know the great thing about Christianity.
If you want to follow things word for word, there's a sect for that.
If you want to marry 15 wives and get away with it, there's a sect for that.
Even if you want to disregard everything the bible says and only want presents at Christmas, there's a sect for that too.
Yep there's a sect for just about anyone, only with Christianity.

This is very true, I couldn't agree with you more on that. Not to mention, one sect is always trying to prove that their interpretation is superior or the more "God-worthy" one; they are constantly going at it with actual differences in BELIEF and what is forbidden or permitted, etc.

 

[Athronox]

In my opinion, religion is nothing more than a way for humans to:

A: Have a reason to do wrong.

B: Justify themselves and give themselves a reason to live.

C: Convince themselves that when they die, they will really just be going somewhere else, as the thought of non-existence is horrifying.

All of which are, inherently, pointless. All the most brutal wars ever fought, most of the the innocents ever slain, and all of the greatest societies of the world all fell due to a relation of religion in some way to a varying degree.

 

[Napalmbrain]

But you guys have the Archbishop of Canterbury

I'm not an Anglican, although any comparison between the respectable archbidhop and the extremely revered Pope is futile.

And Catholics don't?

No, Catholics pray to Mary, Gabriel and other non-divine figures.

Don't you Protestants have like, 80 million denominations or something? How it can be the "true religion" when there's so many different versions of it?

They're all very alike with minor variations. For example, if like me, shouting, jumping, singing lively modern songs and being filled with the Spirit is your thing, then the COC (Christian Outreach Center) is your thing. If you're more shy and boring, Anglicanism prevails. If you're the liberal type, the Quakers are ideal. They're all essentially the same with the same message- Jesus is Lord, and anyone who accepts Him shall recieve eternal life. Catholicism is more 'Mary is the Lord's mother, so worship her and recieve eternal life. Oh, and do what the pontiff says or we'll burn you at the stake'.

You know the great thing about Christianity.
If you want to follow things word for word, there's a sect for that.
If you want to marry 15 wives and get away with it, there's a sect for that.
Even if you want to disregard everything the bible says and only want presents at Christmas, there's a sect for that too.
Yep there's a sect for just about anyone, only with Christianity.

Apparently there's even a "sect" for atheists, bizarre as that may seem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

I don't think I'll join though.

All of which are, inherently, pointless. All the most brutal wars ever fought, most of the the innocents ever slain, and all of the greatest societies of the world all fell due to a relation of religion in some way to a varying degree.

Not really. I won't deny there have been some wars which have been due to religion, but most wars have mainly been about territory and resource disputes, with religion occasionally getting dragged in to try to justify them.

 

[PrinceLink]

In my opinion, religion is nothing more than a way for humans to:

A: Have a reason to do wrong.

Actually it gives people a reason to back up their morals. You see without a religion, god or belief system or anything really. If its just pure science then your morality is only a cause of chemical reactions in your brain.

I am a Sikh and I believe logic and reason should back up your morals.

B: Justify themselves and give themselves a reason to live.

Justify themselves how? And everyone needs a reason to do something. I think its kinda cool that some people are so disillusioned that they well live a selfless life to help the world.

Currently your living on selfish impulses.

C: Convince themselves that when they die, they will really just be going somewhere else, as the thought of non-existence is horrifying.

It is horrifying and humans are made to make themselves in a comfortable situation. It was only natural of us humans to ease are pain so we continue to do the things we do. And people love to use "What If......" alot

All of which are, inherently, pointless. All the most brutal wars ever fought, most of the the innocents ever slain, and all of the greatest societies of the world all fell due to a relation of religion in some way to a varying degree.

Take some actual history lessons please rather than repeating non sense you find on the internet.

Most wars have been fought for power, land and girls. Religion was used an excuse back then so the masses would follow their leaders desires.

(It appears Napalm has covered this. O well)

Apparently there's even a "sect" for atheists, bizarre as that may seem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

I don't think I'll join though.

Wow, it might actually be bigger than 80,000 apps the iPhone offers. Crazy.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

In my opinion, religion is nothing more than a way for humans to:

A: Have a reason to do wrong.

Actually it gives people a reason to back up their morals. You see without a religion, god or belief system or anything really. If its just pure science then your morality is only a cause of chemical reactions in your brain.

I am a Sikh and I believe logic and reason should back up your morals.

B: Justify themselves and give themselves a reason to live.

Justify themselves how? And everyone needs a reason to do something. I think its kinda cool that some people are so disillusioned that they well live a selfless life to help the world.

Currently your living on selfish impulses.



It is horrifying and humans are made to make themselves in a comfortable situation. It was only natural of us humans to ease are pain so we continue to do the things we do. And people love to use "What If......" alot

All of which are, inherently, pointless. All the most brutal wars ever fought, most of the the innocents ever slain, and all of the greatest societies of the world all fell due to a relation of religion in some way to a varying degree.

Take some actual history lessons please rather than repeating non sense you find on the internet.

Most wars have been fought for power, land and girls. Religion was used an excuse back then so the masses would follow their leaders desires.

(It appears Napalm has covered this. O well)

Apparently there's even a "sect" for atheists, bizarre as that may seem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

I don't think I'll join though.

Wow, it might actually be bigger than 80,000 apps the iPhone offers. Crazy.

I am in full agreement with you in that religion was used as an excuse in the past so that the massed would follow their leaders' desires and every command. They took advantage of the fact that religion was dear to people and their education system did not seek to allow the people to know any different. Very well put; wars were fought for land, power, and girls (no, seriously), while religious affiliates were taken advantage of when they were at a "time of war". You see, these leaders knew that the people were susceptible and were in fact the one's that made religion to seem so precious to them that they would go to war without questioning the reasons behind the war and morality behind going about a war, just or unjust.

 

[skar]

You shouldn't bother yourself with any variation of God, it doesn't exist.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

You shouldn't bother yourself with any variation of God, it doesn't exist.

Okay, thanks for your input. Now please explain to me what caused you to be an atheist.