Christians

[dedpoet777]

this was my reply to someone on youtube, who said i was "doomed" because i didnt believe in the bible after a comment i made. i know this is long, but id suggest anyone who believes in the bible reads it and considers it.....thoroughly

----i appreciate your concern, i really do. i used to be concerned for those that didnt believe as well. however, i was a christian for 17 years since I was 8 tears old. i went to christian high school, baptist bible college at a small institution in west virginia , and to liberty university ran by jerry falwell. ive studied the bible thoroughly, while i was a believer, in both the greek and hebrew text. and ive read it through and through. i was going to those schools to be a preacher. the irony of my choice to drop religion, mainly speaking of christianity, was that the bible itself is what made me do it.

----you claim to know god, you think the hible has brought you close to him. you are in error. i dont know how to say it any other way. you are as blind as i was. im going to make 3 points id like you to consider:

----firstly, most civilized countries look at the people in the middle east and think they are desert dwellers with no sense at all. and who can deny that? it is mostly true. theyre very uneducated and nonetheless, very religious. people tend to see them as "going to hell" or above them. who do you think wrote the bible? it was the same type of people. and it was their bloodline. earthquakes, volcanoes, lightning, it was all god to them. they knew nothing. in fact, if you do some research, allah, the god of islam is also the "god of abraham." therefore jehovah, and allah are the same god. now, i know you immediately think to yourself, it was the devil, he is the deceiver. but that is incorrect. people will believe whatever they want to believe. some chose to believe god said one thing, others chose to believe he said another. you don’t think that is true, how many different sects of christianity are there? point proven… the "holy land" today is nothing but a place of hatred, and it is all fueled by religion and differences in beliefs that some people, christians included, think is more important than life, and justifies murder. which brings me to my next point.

----secondly, the portrayal of god in the bible is absolutely absurd. use your head for a minute and drop your beliefs, to think about this question with logic. do you really think god has to or would kill anyone? what makes more sense in a situation such as the exodus? so, as the story says, god punished the egyptians and killed the first born. so then the pharoh let the people go. what did that do? yeah the people were freed, but you still have hundreds or thousands of egyptian first born dead for what? what did they do? god killed them to what. prove a point? if god would have just given the pharoh a message or shown himself to him and told him to free them, than problem solved, and no innocent people died. you think he isnt that smart? or do you think he operates like a street thug? do you really know god now? if you think he did or does those things, then you do not know him. the bible says god killed millions of people and there are hundreds of examples of what im talking about. 2kings 2 23-25 "23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel . As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria ."
as if god couldnt have come up with a better way to teach those kids than maul them with two bears? you kidding me? making fun of a bald guy should result in a bear mauling? that is ludicrous. if you look those types of things are all over the bible. to me the writers of the bible portrayed him as acting like a man, with no more sense than a man. that is horribly, absurdly, false. so, to me, if the character of god was portrayed incorrectly, then everything else was too, every word of it.

----thirdly and finally, the science of the bible is non existent. there are things in science that one cannot deny. for instance, the speed of light. no one can deny how fast it is and that it can indeed be measured, thanks to einstein and many others. now, bible believers believe the earth is 10-20,000 years old or less. yet, there are galaxies 80,000, 500,000, millions, billions of light years away. a light year is the distance in which it takes light to travel a year. so, the light from a galaxy, that is 80,000 light years away, took 80,000 years to get here, period. also, take the story of creation for example, which might i add, was written 800 years prior to the story in the bible by the sumerians, as was the flood story. look it up and see the undeniable similarities between to the two. anyway, the creation story is beautiful, it is. but it takes away from god. only man, has to come to a place and build something. it acts as if god came here(which is hilarious because he is supposed to be everywhere, yet he always comes here to do something) and then created all this stuff. you think god has to come here to do anything? he is god, he doesnt have to lift a finger, let alone rest after 6 days of it. if you have infinite amounts of energy, why do you need to rest? it wouldnt take him 6 days to create anything, he can create entire universes in a split second. to me, it is more beautiful to see how life evolved and how cells evolved. in the beginning, god created atoms, and the atoms went and did the rest, while god watched. we are animals. the bible tells us that we are above animals, but we are animals. that is where were wrong. it is wrong to think were above any form of life on this planet. if we didnt used to have tails why do we have tail bones? god just throw us a loop? apes, have the same digestive system as we do, but guess what they use. they use their appendix, while ours gives us problems. they use their gall bladder more and could not do without it, like we can do without it. and besides, animals are above us in a way, humans are just smart enough to be destructive for some cause they believe in. when is the last time an ape flew a plane into a building, or blew up an abortion clinic in the name of “god”?
----evolution is beautiful, because it shows how much work GOD DID NOT HAVE TO DO. he set the system in place, and it rolled from there. and he is a very brilliant and efficient god because of that.

----religion is mans last hope at trying to conquer death before it conquers him. no one, not even the smartest man on this planet, knows what is after death for sure, including you. you have faith that you know, but you dont and neither do i. man will do anything in his power to make sure his mind is at ease about the unknown, and that goes further than the topic of death. if you cant see any of the truth in what ive said, im afraid YOU may be too blind to ever see the real light again, not me. it is a very evil thing.

----sorry this reply was so long. i have many other points about this topic and im currently beginning a book on it. i really hope this helps you find god, because i assure you, until you drop that book and religion, you have only found man, not god. this may sound ironic and impossible, but the only way to find and appreciate god, is to do it without religion. my religion is very simple. i know the power of a choice and its consequences. i know god exists, but i do not think we have found him. i do not know what is after death except that it is positive. i do not believe in any punishment from god. you cannot have gods will, and free will at the same time. god’s will would always override, therefore scratching free will right off. especially when talking about an after life.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

this was my reply to someone on youtube, who said i was "doomed" because i didnt believe in the bible after a comment i made. i know this is long, but id suggest anyone who believes in the bible reads it and considers it.....thoroughly

----i appreciate your concern, i really do. i used to be concerned for those that didnt believe as well. however, i was a christian for 17 years since I was 8 tears old. i went to christian high school, baptist bible college at a small institution in west virginia , and to liberty university ran by jerry falwell. ive studied the bible thoroughly, while i was a believer, in both the greek and hebrew text. and ive read it through and through. i was going to those schools to be a preacher. the irony of my choice to drop religion, mainly speaking of christianity, was that the bible itself is what made me do it.

----you claim to know god, you think the hible has brought you close to him. you are in error. i dont know how to say it any other way. you are as blind as i was. im going to make 3 points id like you to consider:

----firstly, most civilized countries look at the people in the middle east and think they are desert dwellers with no sense at all. and who can deny that? it is mostly true. theyre very uneducated and nonetheless, very religious. people tend to see them as "going to hell" or above them. who do you think wrote the bible? it was the same type of people. and it was their bloodline. earthquakes, volcanoes, lightning, it was all god to them. they knew nothing. in fact, if you do some research, allah, the god of islam is also the "god of abraham." therefore jehovah, and allah are the same god. now, i know you immediately think to yourself, it was the devil, he is the deceiver. but that is incorrect. people will believe whatever they want to believe. some chose to believe god said one thing, others chose to believe he said another. you don’t think that is true, how many different sects of christianity are there? point proven… the "holy land" today is nothing but a place of hatred, and it is all fueled by religion and differences in beliefs that some people, christians included, think is more important than life, and justifies murder. which brings me to my next point.

----secondly, the portrayal of god in the bible is absolutely absurd. use your head for a minute and drop your beliefs, to think about this question with logic. do you really think god has to or would kill anyone? what makes more sense in a situation such as the exodus? so, as the story says, god punished the egyptians and killed the first born. so then the pharoh let the people go. what did that do? yeah the people were freed, but you still have hundreds or thousands of egyptian first born dead for what? what did they do? god killed them to what. prove a point? if god would have just given the pharoh a message or shown himself to him and told him to free them, than problem solved, and no innocent people died. you think he isnt that smart? or do you think he operates like a street thug? do you really know god now? if you think he did or does those things, then you do not know him. the bible says god killed millions of people and there are hundreds of examples of what im talking about. 2kings 2 23-25 "23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel . As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria ."
as if god couldnt have come up with a better way to teach those kids than maul them with two bears? you kidding me? making fun of a bald guy should result in a bear mauling? that is ludicrous. if you look those types of things are all over the bible. to me the writers of the bible portrayed him as acting like a man, with no more sense than a man. that is horribly, absurdly, false. so, to me, if the character of god was portrayed incorrectly, then everything else was too, every word of it.

----thirdly and finally, the science of the bible is non existent. there are things in science that one cannot deny. for instance, the speed of light. no one can deny how fast it is and that it can indeed be measured, thanks to einstein and many others. now, bible believers believe the earth is 10-20,000 years old or less. yet, there are galaxies 80,000, 500,000, millions, billions of light years away. a light year is the distance in which it takes light to travel a year. so, the light from a galaxy, that is 80,000 light years away, took 80,000 years to get here, period. also, take the story of creation for example, which might i add, was written 800 years prior to the story in the bible by the sumerians, as was the flood story. look it up and see the undeniable similarities between to the two. anyway, the creation story is beautiful, it is. but it takes away from god. only man, has to come to a place and build something. it acts as if god came here(which is hilarious because he is supposed to be everywhere, yet he always comes here to do something) and then created all this stuff. you think god has to come here to do anything? he is god, he doesnt have to lift a finger, let alone rest after 6 days of it. if you have infinite amounts of energy, why do you need to rest? it wouldnt take him 6 days to create anything, he can create entire universes in a split second. to me, it is more beautiful to see how life evolved and how cells evolved. in the beginning, god created atoms, and the atoms went and did the rest, while god watched. we are animals. the bible tells us that we are above animals, but we are animals. that is where were wrong. it is wrong to think were above any form of life on this planet. if we didnt used to have tails why do we have tail bones? god just throw us a loop? apes, have the same digestive system as we do, but guess what they use. they use their appendix, while ours gives us problems. they use their gall bladder more and could not do without it, like we can do without it. and besides, animals are above us in a way, humans are just smart enough to be destructive for some cause they believe in. when is the last time an ape flew a plane into a building, or blew up an abortion clinic in the name of “god”?
----evolution is beautiful, because it shows how much work GOD DID NOT HAVE TO DO. he set the system in place, and it rolled from there. and he is a very brilliant and efficient god because of that.

----religion is mans last hope at trying to conquer death before it conquers him. no one, not even the smartest man on this planet, knows what is after death for sure, including you. you have faith that you know, but you dont and neither do i. man will do anything in his power to make sure his mind is at ease about the unknown, and that goes further than the topic of death. if you cant see any of the truth in what ive said, im afraid YOU may be too blind to ever see the real light again, not me. it is a very evil thing.

----sorry this reply was so long. i have many other points about this topic and im currently beginning a book on it. i really hope this helps you find god, because i assure you, until you drop that book and religion, you have only found man, not god. this may sound ironic and impossible, but the only way to find and appreciate god, is to do it without religion. my religion is very simple. i know the power of a choice and its consequences. i know god exists, but i do not think we have found him. i do not know what is after death except that it is positive. i do not believe in any punishment from god. you cannot have gods will, and free will at the same time. god’s will would always override, therefore scratching free will right off. especially when talking about an after life.

wow. if thats what you want to believe then fine. but your leaving out a lot a points in you agruements. Lets take for example all the wrathful stuff God did killing people. If you studied the bible like you said you did, you'd know it was a whole different ball game in the old testament before Jesus with sacrafices and all that good stuff. God didnt put up with crap like that. Thats just how they were and they don't happen today thanks to Jesus. This only really makes me wonder if you are really sincere about studying the bible. Also God may be everywhere but who are you to say he couldnt take on a physical form or not. He can do whatever he wants and appear to someone however he wants. I can't answer why he did it and you cant either but saying he cant doesnt add up. And its also funny that i've myself have done a study proving God and Allah or not the same. I'm get more into this but I have to leave for work in 5 minutes. A lot of what you said just isnt adding up. sorry.

 

[dedpoet777]

wow. if thats what you want to believe then fine. but your leaving out a lot a points in you agruements. Lets take for example all the wrathful stuff God did killing people. If you studied the bible like you said you did, you'd know it was a whole different ball game in the old testament before Jesus with sacrafices and all that good stuff. God didnt put up with crap like that. Thats just how they were and they don't happen today thanks to Jesus. This only really makes me wonder if you are really sincere about studying the bible. Also God may be everywhere but who are you to say he couldnt take on a physical form or not. He can do whatever he wants and appear to someone however he wants. I can't answer why he did it and you cant either but saying he cant doesnt add up. And its also funny that i've myself have done a study proving God and Allah or not the same. I'm get more into this but I have to leave for work in 5 minutes. A lot of what you said just isnt adding up. sorry.

my only reply to you is this. you must use logic man. forget what you think he would or wouldnt do in the old testament. why is it always killing dude? he cant find a better way? if someone today says god told them something, literally, what do we do? we think theyre crazy. id suggest you think the same thing about the bible. for you to believe that god is a killer, that is the highest form of blasphemy. do me a favor bro, since you know so much, go read the chapter after the ten commandments. you know what it says? it preaches slavery. it preaches enslaving those that do not believe like you. you think that is right? what is better, preach to those that dont believe or enslave them and their children? it even says keep the slave children for them to be slaves to your children. would you want muslims to come over here and enslave you and your kids? that book is evil man. period. im not the one that needs to prove that, it is clear. and allah and jehovah ARE the same god, go look it up. allah is the "god of abraham" ive also read the koran. there are some of the same characters in it. its all a hoax, written by morons.

here ill show you theyre the same god. please make sure to know your facts before you tell someone theyre wrong. i dont know what you studied, but here is the proof. its in the koran, which im sure youve never read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
that says, "The concept of Allah or God differs according to religious tradition (see also Islamic concept of God). In Islam, Allah is the One God (Qur'an, 112:1), the supreme creator, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as well as of the prophet Mohammad and of Jesus (who in Islam is also a prophet but is not seen as God or the son of God). The concept differs somewhat in Christianity and Judaism, although Arabs and Arabic speakers of those faiths use the same word." thats not the same god? am i missing something?

and i never said he CANT do anything. but what is the point? he could create all this from billions of miles away. he doesnt need to show up here and hand mold everything. god doesnt need to do extra work. and so if he came to moses and he came to all those people, what about the people before them? they werent the first. so what he created adam and eve and then just dipped off for a while? then came back told some other peoples some stuff? give me a break man. you need to think about this stuff and millions of people like you. religion is the root of all evil on this planet. name me one thing that has caused more death, please.

the people that wrote that book are dumber than your average 4 year old today. go ask any 4 year old if the earth if flat and see what they say. go ask them if the earth revolves around the sun or not. moses didnt know anything more than what he thought and saw. you think of god revealed anything to him he would get the science wrong? they believed that stuff for thousands of years and even killed people for believing otherwise.

also i know all about mr jesus and what that all meant. but jesus coming doesnt change the fact of all the people already dead does it? did he bring those people back to life? no he didnt. he was not the son of god, period. people wanted him to be, just like they will believe anything to make death less painful and scary. people look at roman and greek mythology and how the gods came down and had sex with women and made half god, half human beings. you, and christians alike, think that is ludicrous right? well what about jesus? god impregnated mary and had a son with her. there is no difference between the two is there? nope... dude i was just like you man. i know how hard it is to see your beliefs challenged. and it took me years to drop christianity. but i did and im glad i did. it is a horrible horrible thing. i could go on and on and on and on dude.

even your little signature bible verse there. what does that promote? "Thou Shalt Not Kill" remember that? doesnt say "thou shalt not kill(unless someone deserves it) that verse, that whole chapter really, is about capital punishment. if you look up the word "kill" in the hebrew, it is the same as murder. capital punishment is no better than abortion. its all the same. one of the many contradictions in the "word of god"
after these two massive posts, if you cannot see my point, then youre blind dude. im not going to bicker back and forth about this. all i have said proves my point. you, and a lot of other people, need to prove otherwise.

 

[Brawny]

my only reply to you is this. you must use logic man. forget what you think he would or wouldnt do in the old testament. why is it always killing dude? he cant find a better way? if someone today says god told them something, literally, what do we do? we think theyre crazy. id suggest you think the same thing about the bible. for you to believe that god is a killer, that is the highest form of blasphemy. do me a favor bro, since you know so much, go read the chapter after the ten commandments. you know what it says? it preaches slavery. it preaches enslaving those that do not believe like you. you think that is right? what is better, preach to those that dont believe or enslave them and their children? it even says keep the slave children for them to be slaves to your children. would you want muslims to come over here and enslave you and your kids? that book is evil man. period. im not the one that needs to prove that, it is clear. and allah and jehovah ARE the same god, go look it up. allah is the "god of abraham" ive also read the koran. there are some of the same characters in it. its all a hoax, written by morons.

here ill show you theyre the same god. please make sure to know your facts before you tell someone theyre wrong. i dont know what you studied, but here is the proof. its in the koran, which im sure youve never read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
that says, "The concept of Allah or God differs according to religious tradition (see also Islamic concept of God). In Islam, Allah is the One God (Qur'an, 112:1), the supreme creator, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as well as of the prophet Mohammad and of Jesus (who in Islam is also a prophet but is not seen as God or the son of God). The concept differs somewhat in Christianity and Judaism, although Arabs and Arabic speakers of those faiths use the same word." thats not the same god? am i missing something?

and i never said he CANT do anything. but what is the point? he could create all this from billions of miles away. he doesnt need to show up here and hand mold everything. god doesnt need to do extra work. and so if he came to moses and he came to all those people, what about the people before them? they werent the first. so what he created adam and eve and then just dipped off for a while? then came back told some other peoples some stuff? give me a break man. you need to think about this stuff and millions of people like you. religion is the root of all evil on this planet. name me one thing that has caused more death, please.

the people that wrote that book are dumber than your average 4 year old today. go ask any 4 year old if the earth if flat and see what they say. go ask them if the earth revolves around the sun or not. moses didnt know anything more than what he thought and saw. you think of god revealed anything to him he would get the science wrong? they believed that stuff for thousands of years and even killed people for believing otherwise.

also i know all about mr jesus and what that all meant. but jesus coming doesnt change the fact of all the people already dead does it? did he bring those people back to life? no he didnt. he was not the son of god, period. people wanted him to be, just like they will believe anything to make death less painful and scary. people look at roman and greek mythology and how the gods came down and had sex with women and made half god, half human beings. you, and christians alike, think that is ludicrous right? well what about jesus? god impregnated mary and had a son with her. there is no difference between the two is there? nope... dude i was just like you man. i know how hard it is to see your beliefs challenged. and it took me years to drop christianity. but i did and im glad i did. it is a horrible horrible thing. i could go on and on and on and on dude.

even your little signature bible verse there. what does that promote? "Thou Shalt Not Kill" remember that? doesnt say "thou shalt not kill(unless someone deserves it) that verse, that whole chapter really, is about capital punishment. if you look up the word "kill" in the hebrew, it is the same as murder. capital punishment is no better than abortion. its all the same. one of the many contradictions in the "word of god"
after these two massive posts, if you cannot see my point, then youre blind dude. im not going to bicker back and forth about this. all i have said proves my point. you, and a lot of other people, need to prove otherwise.

First, I ask you what you think the ramifications for murder is. There has to be some situations where you would warrant it. (maybe taking down hitler or something). Any dictionary definition will say UNLAWFUL.

God and Allah are not the same. Maybe the Muslims believe that but I and other Christians agree they are not. It is in your own quote that non Islamic people don't believe this.

God doesn't have to, he wants to. He is complete and could have existed in the nothingness, he didn't need the universe. He wants an intimate relationship with his workmanship. You don't buy a dog and then do nothing for it. Obviously religion is the main reason for disagreement, it has to do with our eternal future.

If you think that the Bible was written by 4 year olds, why did it take you seminary school to realize it?

When you say "you and Christians alike" what religion do you think he is?

 

[dedpoet777]

First, I ask you what you think the ramifications for murder is. There has to be some situations where you would warrant it. (maybe taking down hitler or something). Any dictionary definition will say UNLAWFUL.

God and Allah are not the same. Maybe the Muslims believe that but I and other Christians agree they are not. It is in your own quote that non Islamic people don't believe this.

God doesn't have to, he wants to. He is complete and could have existed in the nothingness, he didn't need the universe. He wants an intimate relationship with his workmanship. You don't buy a dog and then do nothing for it. Obviously religion is the main reason for disagreement, it has to do with our eternal future.

If you think that the Bible was written by 4 year olds, why did it take you seminary school to realize it?

When you say "you and Christians alike" what religion do you think he is?

listen dude. if youre going to challenge me, try not to sound like such an idiot doing it, while youre trying to talk down to me. ok?

anyway, why is death always the solution? so take hitler, who took his own life, for example, since you want to speak of him. he took his own life. that tell you anything? ever think that maybe life in jail is worse than death? thought of that one? he obviously thought death was better than something right? there is no need for murder of any kind. there are other ways.

as far as allah is concerned. if their book says he is the same god then what do you have? im not sure i get it. it doesnt matter what you, and other christians think. you dont know the history dude. people think jesus was some white guy, with brown flowing hair. thats not the case. take your middle eastern jew or muslim and that was jesus, and the people that wrote the bible. no matter what you want to think or believe, that is the same god. youre missing the point. the point is there are two messages there. one of them is wrong, or both are wrong, but cannot both be right. in my opinion, neither is right.

lastly, why did it take me to seminary to realize it? have you realized it? i was brought up in that garbage, brainwashed like you are. what kind of question is that? you trying to insult me? cause if so youre only insulting yourself, because i am free from that stupidity but youre not. i wasnt allowed to think freely, forced to go to church. i bought into it like you did. so if youre trying to say im an idiot for that, what are you?
nothing im saying takes away from god, not a word. what you dont realize is the bible does. it lessens him. if you cant see that im sorry. i really hope you will one day.

oh and when i said "you and christians alike" what did you think i meant? im saying him and christians like him. that too complex for you? ill post it in english next time, ha.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

as far as allah is concerned. if their book says he is the same god then what do you have? im not sure i get it. it doesnt matter what you, and other christians think. you dont know the history dude. people think jesus was some white guy, with brown flowing hair. thats not the case. take your middle eastern jew or muslim and that was jesus, and the people that wrote the bible. no matter what you want to think or believe, that is the same god. youre missing the point. the point is there are two messages there. one of them is wrong, or both are wrong, but cannot both be right. in my opinion, neither is right.

i've never thought a Jesus as some white guy. Also for some reason some people think that he is black to. But I agree with you on him being middle eastern for obvious reasons. Ah the great Allah and God are the same debate. They really are different Gods. Take the following facts:
1. Our God involves the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). ~Wiki~ In Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit.

The Muslims just have Allah and only Allah.

2. The Bible says God can take the form of a man and is all powerful

The Qur'an says Allah can't take the form of a man making him not all powerful

3. The Bible says Jesus is the son of God.

The Qur'an says Jesus was just a prophet. I have never understood this because if Jesus was just a prophet then him claiming to be the son would have been blasphemy and real prophets dont speak blasphemy. The Qur'an does refer to Jesus as the "perfect one".

This proves that are God (Trinity) is all powerful and his son was Jesus. Allah does not involve the Trinity, is not all powerful and Jesus was just a prophet.

 

[Squall7]

i've never thought a Jesus as some white guy. Also for some reason some people think that he is black to. But I agree with you on him being middle eastern for obvious reasons. Ah the great Allah and God are the same debate. They really are different Gods. Take the following facts:
1. Our God involves the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). ~Wiki~ In Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit.

The Muslims just have Allah and only Allah.

Well, if you think about it, the trinity could just be a metaphor for God's will.

2. The Bible says God can take the form of a man and is all powerful

The Qur'an says Allah can't take the form of a man making him not all powerful

I'd like to know where you get that quote. I would have thought a christian reading the Qur'an would have be blasphemous...

Some people believe that Spiderman could beat Batman. Others believe Spiderman could never beat Batman. Just because two people have different opinions on the abilities of the same person, doesn't mean that there really are two seperate people.

3. The Bible says Jesus is the son of God.

The Qur'an says Jesus was just a prophet. I have never understood this because if Jesus was just a prophet then him claiming to be the son would have been blasphemy and real prophets dont speak blasphemy. The Qur'an does refer to Jesus as the "perfect one".

"perfect" is different to Godly. One can have a perfect score on Wii bowling, but you cannot say that only God could get a perfect score on Wii bowling.

This proves that are God (Trinity) is all powerful and his son was Jesus. Allah does not involve the Trinity, is not all powerful and Jesus was just a prophet.

Funny, you seem to not accept another's belief as equal to your own. This is the whole reason why people hate Christians.

Jesus was Jewish. Isn't it kinda funny how Christians follow Christ and condemn the religion he followed, because it was a Jewish person that killed Jesus? I wouldn't blame Americans, if an American was blamed for killing the president of America.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

Well, if you think about it, the trinity could just be a metaphor for God's will.

yea well i can understand you thinking that since your not a christian yourself.

I'd like to know where you get that quote. I would have thought a christian reading the Qur'an would have be blasphemous...

Some people believe that Spiderman could beat Batman. Others believe Spiderman could never beat Batman. Just because two people have different opinions on the abilities of the same person, doesn't mean that there really are two seperate people.

It's somewhere in the Qur'an (dont remember exactly where, found it a while ago). Well a christian reading the qur'an isn't blasphemous especially when you want to learn the differences in other religions. I'd be blasphemous if i was worshipping God and Allah.

"perfect" is different to Godly. One can have a perfect score on Wii bowling, but you cannot say that only God could get a perfect score on Wii bowling.

you should know perfect refers to "without sin". No one on earth has done this except Jesus. c'mon now squall.

Funny, you seem to not accept another's belief as equal to your own. This is the whole reason why people hate Christians.

Well you cant accept one truth then another the contricts the first truth. So I don't accept your religion, get over it. If you dont except mine fine. I believe in freedom and democracy and one should believe what they want as long as it doesnt involve harming another. Its wrong if a christian forces his religion on someone, which some so called christians do. Its wrong. We are supposed to spread our faith with those willing to hear it. If someone hates me because of some bad experience with some hypocrite Christian, well i'm sorry.

Jesus was Jewish. Isn't it kinda funny how Christians follow Christ and condemn the religion he followed, because it was a Jewish person that killed Jesus? I wouldn't blame Americans, if an American was blamed for killing the president of America.

whoa your getting ahead of yourself here. You see there are people in the world that are responsible for causing misleading sterotypes not just on religion, but race, gender, etc and those people are know as hypocrites (which is someone who basically says they are something when they are not).
Christians don't condemn anybody, God does. We don't send you to hell, God does. There is no condemning by christians, just supposed to be love. I had a jewish friend, we just never really talked about our differences and get into agruments, we just had fun being friends. No its not funny how these hypocrite christians follow christ and condemn the religion he followed and createing these sterotypes about the christian religion that people like you fall for. Its sad. **I wouldn't blame Americans, if an American was blamed for killing the president of America.** I don't think anybody would it would probably be blamed on the Presidents opposing political party.

 

[Squall7]

yea well i can understand you thinking that since your not a christian yourself.

Now now. You're just proving my point that you don't see anyone else's views as equal to your own. What makes it me 'thinking' and you 'knowing'? The Bible says so? (Which is something we're not agreeing on in the first place)

It's somewhere in the Qur'an (dont remember exactly where, found it a while ago). Well a christian reading the qur'an isn't blasphemous especially when you want to learn the differences in other religions. I'd be blasphemous if i was worshipping God and Allah.

Ok, well we'll have to take your word on what it said... ...I'll have to take your word that your memory of it is correct (that it couldn't have possibly have been confused) of you reading it (unless you read Arabic, you'll only be reading a translation of it anyway - which isn't always fool-proof of what it said) once upon a time. You see, the problem is you've got researcher bias. You've already made up your mind of what you're going to find, and so you'll keep searching until it says what you want it to "say".

you should know perfect refers to "without sin". No one on earth has done this except Jesus. c'mon now squall.

What so Jesus has never sinned? What about original sin? Also, why should I specifically know that perfect refers to "without sin"? Have you known everybody whom ever existed? How can you be so sure that nobody else in the history of the planet has ever lived without 'sinning'?

Well you cant accept one truth then another the contricts the first truth. So I don't accept your religion, get over it. If you dont except mine fine. I believe in freedom and democracy and one should believe what they want as long as it doesnt involve harming another. Its wrong if a christian forces his religion on someone, which some so called christians do. Its wrong. We are supposed to spread our faith with those willing to hear it. If someone hates me because of some bad experience with some hypocrite Christian, well i'm sorry.

You see, this is the problem. You believe that what you believe is THE truth. Christianity is an idea, a belief, not an absolute truth. At least I accept that there is the minutest possiblity that I may be wrong, no matter how sure I am.

Freedom and democracy? Which do you value the most, your citizenship or your religion, because you are starting to sound awfully patriotic.

"So I don't accept your religion, get over it. If you dont except mine fine". - The use of specific language here just shows that you're unwilling to even expand your mind. Stating a fact "I don't accept your relgion", followed by a command "Get over it". Then follow it up by a possibility "If you don't accept mine" followed by apathy "Fine". How about, instead of being so dogmatic and righteous, you could accept that you could just possibly be incorrect or inaccurate in something you say. You are not God, therefore you are fallible. Not accepting that is one of your problems.

whoa your getting ahead of yourself here. You see there are people in the world that are responsible for causing misleading sterotypes not just on religion, but race, gender, etc and those people are know as hypocrites (which is someone who basically says they are something when they are not).
Christians don't condemn anybody, God does. We don't send you to hell, God does. There is no condemning by christians, just supposed to be love. I had a jewish friend, we just never really talked about our differences and get into agruments, we just had fun being friends. No its not funny how these hypocrite christians follow christ and condemn the religion he followed and createing these sterotypes about the christian religion that people like you fall for. Its sad. **I wouldn't blame Americans, if an American was blamed for killing the president of America.** I don't think anybody would it would probably be blamed on the Presidents opposing political party.

Wrong. Are you saying that Christians do not condemn homosexuals? Because, I've seen many Christians do just that:

con·demn (kn-dm)
tr.v. con·demned, con·demn·ing, con·demns
1. To express strong disapproval of: condemned the needless waste of food.
2. To pronounce judgment against; sentence: condemned the felons to prison.
3. To judge or declare to be unfit for use or consumption, usually by official order: condemn an old building.
4. To lend credence to or provide evidence for an adverse judgment against: were condemned by their actions.
5. Law To appropriate (property) for public use.

No its not funny how these hypocrite christians follow christ and condemn the religion he followed and createing these sterotypes about the christian religion that people like you fall for. Its sad.

Stereotypes? This implies that it's incorrect or inaccurate. Does every Christian get along with Jews? Does every Christian not hold a grudge for the killing of Jesus? You agrue that there are 'false' Christians out there trying to distort the truth. Isn't it also possible that you're one of those Christians that are trying to 'distort the truth'? You don't even need to be aware that you're doing it for it to happen. Having soo much confidence in your own arguement, whilst assuming that the other person has to be wrong is not going to give your cause any aid.

Again, the use of specific language "that people like you fall for". 'people like you'? You're basicaly accusing me of being a 'fool'. Tell me, how is my 'falling' for the 'christian stereotype' any different to the people of America 'falling' for the stereotype of all muslims being terrorists? How about the stereotype of the British being pompus, pansies whom drink tea all day? Antisemitism has been a long standing problem.
Antisemitism

In 1939 a Roper poll found that only thirty-nine percent of Americans felt that Jews should be treated like other people. Fifty-three percent believed that "Jews are different and should be restricted" and ten percent believed that Jews should be deported.[76] Several surveys taken from 1940 to 1946 found that Jews were seen as a greater threat to the welfare of the United States than any other national, religious, or racial group. [2] It has been estimated that 190,000 - 200,000 Jews could have been saved during the Second World War had it not been for bureaucratic obstacles to immigration deliberately created by Breckinridge Long and others.[77]

I wonder, taking into account your talk about 'hypocrite Christians', how many 'true Christians' actually exist...

 

[Skippy]

What so Jesus has never sinned? What about original sin? Also, why should I specifically know that perfect refers to "without sin"? Have you known everybody whom ever existed? How can you be so sure that nobody else in the history of the planet has ever lived without 'sinning'?

Jesus was born without sin and remained sin free for his whole life - that's the whole point of his sacrifice. That's why some random Joe's death could not pay the price for Adam's sin, it's not an equal sacrifice. He was a propitiatory sacrafice that covered over Adam's sin. It's the whole point of why Jesus came to earth in the first place. He knew he was coming here to die and what that death would accomplish, and he did it willingly. Being mad at people for killing Jesus is pointless - he needed to die to accomplish, he knew he would die, and he knew when he would die - it could not be avoided. In a manner of speaking, his death was the best thing to ever occur to the human race because now we have a way of undoing the affects of that original sin.

As far as other people sinning - don't think of it is just actions that we commit. Yes, we can do bad things, or sin. But sin is more than that. It's the condition we exist in. It's like a birth defect that's been passed down through every generation since Adam. You can't avoid it. It's why we're imperfect, it's why we get sick, it's why we die.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned

 

[Squall7]

Jesus was born without sin and remained sin free for his whole life - that's the whole point of his sacrifice. That's why some random Joe's death could not pay the price for Adam's sin, it's not an equal sacrifice. He was a propitiatory sacrafice that covered over Adam's sin. It's the whole point of why Jesus came to earth in the first place. He knew he was coming here to die and what that death would accomplish, and he did it willingly. Being mad at people for killing Jesus is pointless - he needed to die to accomplish, he knew he would die, and he knew when he would die - it could not be avoided. In a manner of speaking, his death was the best thing to ever occur to the human race because now we have a way of undoing the affects of that original sin.

Interesting. What about original sin? What exempted Jesus from that? I realise Jesus had to die (though me saying it now, is the equivolent of me saying I understand why Obi Wan Kenobi had to die), but that doesn't stop much anti-semetism in the world...

As far as other people sinning - don't think of it is just actions that we commit. Yes, we can do bad things, or sin. But sin is more than that. It's the condition we exist in. It's like a birth defect that's been passed down through every generation since Adam. You can't avoid it. It's why we're imperfect, it's why we get sick, it's why we die.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned

It's why we die? I thought Jesus was meant to die without sinning? Also, we have original sin now. What was it that Jesus actually died for? (I know he "died for us", but to change what?)

(sorry, I know this must sound like the curious child at sunday school).

 

[dedpoet777]

i've never thought a Jesus as some white guy. Also for some reason some people think that he is black to. But I agree with you on him being middle eastern for obvious reasons. Ah the great Allah and God are the same debate. They really are different Gods. Take the following facts:
1. Our God involves the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). ~Wiki~ In Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit.

The Muslims just have Allah and only Allah.

2. The Bible says God can take the form of a man and is all powerful

The Qur'an says Allah can't take the form of a man making him not all powerful

3. The Bible says Jesus is the son of God.

The Qur'an says Jesus was just a prophet. I have never understood this because if Jesus was just a prophet then him claiming to be the son would have been blasphemy and real prophets dont speak blasphemy. The Qur'an does refer to Jesus as the "perfect one".

This proves that are God (Trinity) is all powerful and his son was Jesus. Allah does not involve the Trinity, is not all powerful and Jesus was just a prophet.

this is my last reply on this subject. i totally get what youre saying man. however, there are different views on god in religions yes, but that doesnt change that fact that it is based on the same god. there are different views of god even in christianity, let alone from two different religions. the point is, no matter how god is viewed, it is the same god. the "trinity" is what the 3 combined/seperate entities are called. so the muslims dont have that, and? that still doesnt mean muslims and christians are not referring to the same god.

aside from this man, instead of getting caught up on one thing i said that you dont agree with, think about what else i said. think about why you think god is a killer. think about why slavery is preached in the bible, in exodus. that is my point. the messages in the bible are no good, aside from the moral code, which isnt that hard to figure out. do you think humans are so dumb that god needed to come down and tell us not to kill, or steal, or any of that? it is clear if a society kills one another, that they will not progress as a society. animals even know that, when speaking of their own kind. elephants mourn the loss of their dead, they will stand above the bones of their dead and caress them with their trunks. death is understood all the way down to animals.
as i said go read the chapter directly after the 10 commandments, and see the slavery preached. please drop this allah thing, because there is no argument about it. its the same god, period, different views yes, but still the same.

im unsubsribing form this thread. i have given you all you need to know and understand. if you choose not to take it, fine. hopefully one day, you, and all those like you, will understand that religion as a whole is very destructive. if you do not, well then, in my opinion, you will not progress as an individual. one must seek god himself, and not rely on what people, preachers, and desert dwelling morons think about him. the bible is hearsay. there is no other way to look at it. i wish all religious texts would be burned and forgotten. only then will this world get any better. still to this day it is causing death and confusion.

why do you think 9/11 happened? it happened because were buddies with israel, why? because theyre jews and who runs walstreet? jews do. if it were muslims, wed be protecting them and buddies with them. that is why the muslims are pissed. so what is the source of this war, 9/11, and all of this? religion, religion, religion, religion, religion.
you do away with it, youll have peace, and that is the only way.

god gave us all the clues to see how we got here. he left traces of evolution all around us. instead, people want to take the opinions of desert dwelling morons, who didnt even know the earth revolved around the sun or that it was round. if you want to take their opinons, like i did for 18 years of my life, then do it. but i know theyre wrong now. god does not reveal wrong science to people. evolution shows how smart god made atoms, and cells. if you cant see that beauty than i feel sorry for you.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

Now now. You're just proving my point that you don't see anyone else's views as equal to your own. What makes it me 'thinking' and you 'knowing'? The Bible says so? (Which is something we're not agreeing on in the first place)

yeah well what do you expect when i agree with the bible and you dont. big surprise there.

Ok, well we'll have to take your word on what it said... ...I'll have to take your word that your memory of it is correct (that it couldn't have possibly have been confused) of you reading it (unless you read Arabic, you'll only be reading a translation of it anyway - which isn't always fool-proof of what it said) once upon a time. You see, the problem is you've got researcher bias. You've already made up your mind of what you're going to find, and so you'll keep searching until it says what you want it to "say".

just telling you my findings. you dont have to take my word on it, do some research yourself. its there and i know it so thats all i can tell you. This is all thanks to the arabic class at my university. nice professor (a muslim one at that). I see you like to jump to conclusions to with that last sentence. I know my religions true from my personal experiences.

What so Jesus has never sinned? What about original sin? Also, why should I specifically know that perfect refers to "without sin"? Have you known everybody whom ever existed? How can you be so sure that nobody else in the history of the planet has ever lived without 'sinning'?

yes Jesus never sinned. So what about original sin? you obviously dont know much about religion. read the bible for a start, it doesnt take a religious person to know this. Sin,sin, sin, thats whats tearing the world apart and what every man is guilty of except Jesus, who never did an act of evil and was perfect upon doing so. Its enivitable for man to sin, even if youve only told a white lie once in your life your a sinner. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

You see, this is the problem. You believe that what you believe is THE truth. Christianity is an idea, a belief, not an absolute truth. At least I accept that there is the minutest possiblity that I may be wrong, no matter how sure I am.

Like i said, i know its absolute truth through my personal experiences. I dont except absolute truth when it comes to everything, but with Jesus, thats a different story.

Freedom and democracy? Which do you value the most, your citizenship or your religion, because you are starting to sound awfully patriotic.

I value Jesus, then my country and its values. Thanks I try to be.

"So I don't accept your religion, get over it. If you dont except mine fine". - The use of specific language here just shows that you're unwilling to even expand your mind. Stating a fact "I don't accept your relgion", followed by a command "Get over it". Then follow it up by a possibility "If you don't accept mine" followed by apathy "Fine". How about, instead of being so dogmatic and righteous, you could accept that you could just possibly be incorrect or inaccurate in something you say. You are not God, therefore you are fallible. Not accepting that is one of your problems.

I expand my mind, just not when it comes to my faith in Jesus. Yes I am fallible, put like i said, God has proven himself to me.

Wrong. Are you saying that Christians do not condemn homosexuals? Because, I've seen many Christians do just that:

squall, squall, squall, there you go falling for the sterotypes again. they really got you confused. Jesus and a real christian would love the sinner, hate the sin. I wouldnt dare go to a gay parade holding a sign saying "Everytime a fag dies, God laughs". that action is based on hate and hate is a big no, no. But i also wouldnt go there to support it anyway. Worse thing i would do is tell them that its a sin and a way the devil screws up God's plan for marriage. I like to say it was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

Stereotypes? This implies that it's incorrect or inaccurate. Does every Christian get along with Jews? Does every Christian not hold a grudge for the killing of Jesus? You agrue that there are 'false' Christians out there trying to distort the truth. Isn't it also possible that you're one of those Christians that are trying to 'distort the truth'? You don't even need to be aware that you're doing it for it to happen. Having soo much confidence in your own arguement, whilst assuming that the other person has to be wrong is not going to give your cause any aid.

Not every Christian gets along with Jews, doesnt mean they have to harass them in any way. Christains are human too ya know, just forgiven by grace. I dont hold a grudge for them killing Jesus, I'm grateful everyday they did. That was God's plan afterall. It just amazes me to torture he when through with an unjust trial. wow. just wow. we really did need a savior. No I'm not and its kind of easy to spot the ones that do distort the truth. Ex: acting on hate. I like the WWJD? motto. I wouldnt have so much confidence if i wasnt 100% sure on it and yes God has proven himself to me in my life.

Again, the use of specific language "that people like you fall for". 'people like you'? You're basicaly accusing me of being a 'fool'. Tell me, how is my 'falling' for the 'christian stereotype' any different to the people of America 'falling' for the stereotype of all muslims being terrorists? How about the stereotype of the British being pompus, pansies whom drink tea all day? Antisemitism has been a long standing problem.

Well you do keep falling for it just like that whole homosexual statement you made. I wouldnt call you a fool, just misguided from the sterotypes. honest mistake. I never said falling for a different sterotype was any different. You seem to like to agrue about things you dont understand.

I wonder, taking into account your talk about 'hypocrite Christians', how many 'true Christians' actually exist...

I wonder that also.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

Interesting. What about original sin? What exempted Jesus from that? I realise Jesus had to die (though me saying it now, is the equivolent of me saying I understand why Obi Wan Kenobi had to die), but that doesn't stop much anti-semetism in the world...


It's why we die? I thought Jesus was meant to die without sinning? Also, we have original sin now. What was it that Jesus actually died for? (I know he "died for us", but to change what?)

(sorry, I know this must sound like the curious child at sunday school).

Back before Jesus, when one sinned they had to sacrafice the blood of something innocent but Jesus (the perfect man) paid the ultimate sacrafice for everyone so we no longer have to do the sacraficing. Now we are saved by grace and love.

 

[Squall7]

yeah well what do you expect when i agree with the bible and you dont. big surprise there.

It's not about believing in the bible. It's about respect.

just telling you my findings. you dont have to take my word on it, do some research yourself. its there and i know it so thats all i can tell you. This is all thanks to the arabic class at my university. nice professor (a muslim one at that). I see you like to jump to conclusions to with that last sentence. I know my religions true from my personal experiences.

It's that I'm stating a fact. "Researcher bias" is a very real thing.

yes Jesus never sinned. So what about original sin? you obviously dont know much about religion. read the bible for a start, it doesnt take a religious person to know this. Sin,sin, sin, thats whats tearing the world apart and what every man is guilty of except Jesus, who never did an act of evil and was perfect upon doing so. Its enivitable for man to sin, even if youve only told a white lie once in your life your a sinner. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Sin is a concept from religion. It's religion itself that is tearing the world apart. What about the babies that died almost straight after birth? What 'evil' did they do? If Jesus really never sinned, why was he baptised by John the baptist? Also, this is a discussion, and I ask you to discuss in a civil manner. "You obviously don't know much about religion" is an unneccessary statement, and one that you're not sure of.

Like i said, i know its absolute truth through my personal experiences. I dont except absolute truth when it comes to everything, but with Jesus, thats a different story.

Absolute truth through your personal experiences? Somebody on an LSD trip can 'know' they can fly, but it doesn't stop them jumping out of a window to their demise. Please, explain to me exactly what kind of personal experiences have given you the conclusion that Jesus was everything he was that was written in the bible.

I value Jesus, then my country and its values. Thanks I try to be.

Believe me, that wasn't a compliment. If Jesus came down and said that the US is doing evil things, and that it is your mission to stop them, would you?

I expand my mind, just not when it comes to my faith in Jesus. Yes I am fallible, put like i said, God has proven himself to me.

And this gives you the right to believe oneself is above another? Doesn't the bible itself teach otherwise?

squall, squall, squall, there you go falling for the sterotypes again. they really got you confused. Jesus and a real christian would love the sinner, hate the sin. I wouldnt dare go to a gay parade holding a sign saying "Everytime a fag dies, God laughs". that action is based on hate and hate is a big no, no. But i also wouldnt go there to support it anyway. Worse thing i would do is tell them that its a sin and a way the devil screws up God's plan for marriage. I like to say it was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

Or maybe you're the one confused. Whom you call Christians are not EVERY Christian. They believe Christ is their saviour, and are therefore Christians. Just because you don't agree with somebody else, doesn't mean they are not part of the group. I don't agree with everything Tony Blair says (hardly anything actually), but that doesn't make me non-British. It's funny that you're saying stuff against hate, yet you're fine with making yourself percieved to be better than me.

Not every Christian gets along with Jews, doesnt mean they have to harass them in any way. Christains are human too ya know, just forgiven by grace. I dont hold a grudge for them killing Jesus, I'm grateful everyday they did. That was God's plan afterall. It just amazes me to torture he when through with an unjust trial. wow. just wow. we really did need a savior. No I'm not and its kind of easy to spot the ones that do distort the truth. Ex: acting on hate. I like the WWJD? motto. I wouldnt have so much confidence if i wasnt 100% sure on it and yes God has proven himself to me in my life.

Well, to be fair, I'm 100% sure that you're wrong but that doesn't mean that I'm going to say "So I don't accept your religion, get over it. If you dont except mine fine." or "i know its absolute truth". Fact of the matter, is that you're not nearly being as tolerant as what Christianity preaches.

Well you do keep falling for it just like that whole homosexual statement you made. I wouldnt call you a fool, just misguided from the sterotypes. honest mistake. I never said falling for a different sterotype was any different. You seem to like to agrue about things you dont understand.

Or maybe your definition of "Christian" is an idealistic one, rather than an actual one. Also, once again you assume that I don't understand. Perhaps it is you that isn't understanding me.

Back before Jesus, when one sinned they had to sacrafice the blood of something innocent but Jesus (the perfect man) paid the ultimate sacrafice for everyone so we no longer have to do the sacraficing. Now we are saved by grace and love.

And whom made up that rule that one had to sacrifice to be redeemed? Surely God would not create a rule that neccessitated the need for himself to come down onto earth to change. Surely, God would be so powerful that he could undo his own ruling? Also, before Jesus, how did they know what was a sin and what wasn't if the bible is mostly written afterwards? (The new testament anyway).