Fox Fan Club

[Fox]

I really liked assault and command's multiplayer a lot, and I don't see which level design you're talking about that you din't like in Assault, Strype.

I used to play adventures all the time. Now, I can't even stay awake. No real instant gratification. Too quiet most of the time.

 

[Strype McClaine]

It boils down to decent design with bad handling. Its as if the on foot levels were designed for an intimately different control set up. So It might just be me miss seeing what is just incompatible design (that isnt to say, 3rd person shooters are bad....go play jet force Gemini designers of assault. That is how you do it)

 

[Shadowking]

Anyone mind if I sneak in here?
Cool, Fox's Star fox thread? We'll give this a ago.

Alright Strype, you're talking about one of my favorite franchises here and I love it. So I'm going to respond to your comments on every game if you don't mind. Hell, even if ya do ;P (Oh and of course we don't mind if you sneak in here ^___^)

Starfox suffers from a bad case of genera displacement. It is, at its core, a rail shooter and seems to suffer when it detracts from that.
Going Back lets look at Starfox through the ages.

Where you see genre displacement I see creative experimentation. Though did they have to swap the developer for every game so that not even the voice actors could remain consistent? The Lylat Wars VAs were amazing, but listen to the VAs in the Lylat Cruise level in Brawl! What happened? (Though I have to admit, every character looked amazing when you saw their little communicator pop up...got me REALLY excited for how good the next StarFox game could look)

SNES - Starfox - What a masterpiece! What started as a tech demo, became nothing short of the finest 3d rail-shooter at the time. Sure, you could go into any decent arcade and play afterburner....and you should have, but why, when you can stay in your nice cold dark room....and use a boost to get through.

I really wish they would put this masterpiece on the VC, but I'm sure they won't. I'm looking at getting a console that plays NES and SNES games and I can assure you, this will be one of the first titles I look for once I do. I loved it when I played it, but sadly I never had my own SNES, I had to play my neighbor's. So I don't own my own copy. But I doubt Afterburner allowed you to do a barrel roll yeah? ^__^

Starfox 2 -- What you say? there was no starfox 2. AH! But there was! While never released commercially, it set the tone for other FX game development, and even recycled the star wolf campaign into the 64 game. What makes this game notable is controlling multiple ships in an over map, something that wouldn't be touched on, until command.

I'd like to see them bring back some of the characters. They certainly seemed to be trying to finish what they started here when making Command, though they obviously changed it up a bit to fit the times. A solid title either way.

N64- Starfox 64: The Lylat Wars -- IN some areas it had to take the other title for copy right issues. This is kind of interesting. Take the plot from the original. Take the plot from the sequel. Add it together, do a remake, and polish. That's what happened here. Rather than adding to the cannon, it rewrote the whole damned cannon. We can talk about game play till the cows come home on how good it is, Here's the bad. I HATED the multi player here. It wasn't good. Period. Not because I suck, rather, i can hold my own, but split screening a game like that looses everything. Save some disk space, make a few more levels.

Aside from the obvious comment of Lylat Wars being on a cartridge and not a disk, this was one of the only games my sisters would play with me. So I like the multiplayer quite a bit more than you do. Of course, after playing the multiplayer in Assault there's just no going back...but it was fun while it lasted. My favorite part was how the story changed depending on how you completed (or accomplished) the missions. Tons of fun. You also forgot to mention the introduction of the Blue Marine and Landmaster. Also, could you clarify what you meant about the pilot? I could have sworn it was Fox in the original not just the sequel.

GC -- Starfox Adventures -- Let me be the first to say, I pre-ordered this game, I was there when the UPS guy showed up with the box, I was there. I LOVE This game. What happened? Why the complaints? Rare does one thing right. They make AWESOME plat formers and kick ass shooters. So what would have been the adventures of Krystal Saber and Tricky, Saber got a bullet in the brain pan and starfox was stapled to the title. Secondly, it was a 64 game, that was upgraded to a gc game, so the textures are wonderful, but the polygons are sloppy at times. The original Rare Platforming furry zelda portions of the game GOLD...the star fox rail shooting? FAIL. Lastly the reemergence of andross (really?! Again?! Couldn't think of anything else?) set one of the worst final battles in terms of pacing. The game taught you the combat mechanics on foot, not the skills of their shooting mech, the result, an end fight you weren't ready for, and takes, far far too long.

I quite liked the classic Star Fox stages actually. And the redesigned Arwing was great. The important thing here is to look at the game as a standalone RPG that has characters we love. Because it's an amazing RPG. Very Zelda-like. But people expected another StarFox game, hence the terrible reviews. Now personally, I loved the battle with Andross simply because I wasn't expecting it. It was a big surprise to me and it was an homage to fans like me. As a standalone I can see the problem (which is ironic since for the rest of the game I suggest viewing it as a standalone) but for those of us who had beaten Andross before, we knew what to do and how to do it, yet we were allowed to do so with awesome graphics. And Falco's entrance was amazing. I'm going to end it here before I end up going on a rant on you saying that Rare only does one thing right, seeing as they're my favorite developer and are the sole reason I got a 360.

Star Fox: Assault -- Are you ready for **** you aint prepared for? BOOM! Dark story line. Character Redesign. Bizarre pacing and design. It's motha fucxin starfox assault. The Hits: Way dark plot and story arch, universal Apocalypse. A truly awe inspiring foe. Great Soundtrack. Some KILLER Level designs.
The slops? Some Terrible level designs, To many, eh, you rember pigma, F-im. How about the general? F-im. Too many established character deaths. We didn't need to see that much blood to get a scale of the destruction of this game (personal opinion). Id'e rather have seen more minor characters, such as bill, go down hard. The TERRIBLE on foot control system....

This is my favorite StarFox game. The storyline was too short, but I loved it. I was so shocked at every twist and turn. I just wish Fox had explained more why the others were alive after defeating the Aparoid Queen. Now I would have liked to see Bill in the game AT ALL, though I'm not sure I would have enjoyed seeing him go down. The major characters going down had a bigger impact on me as a fan. But where our disagreements REALLY shine here is when talking about the on-foot control system. I LOVED it. It was pretty awesome for the story and it made the multiplayer absolutely amazing. Add some more maps, get some online multiplayer and a couple new game modes going and it could have beaten even Halo. And I love my Halo so that statement doesn't come without careful consideration. =P

Sadly, however, Nintendo is notorious for shitty online play these days so I'm not holding out much hope unless for whatever reason they decide to sell Star Fox to Microsoft like they sold Rare XP

AND now...
The DS
Starfox: Command --
Here is a game, I'm rather torn with. I love the return of style. I love the mixed combat, strategy elements. I DESPISE the plot of this game. Starting with fox alone in the world, falco left, again, slippy left, even Krystal left, I mean, personally, Unless it is validated in a future game. I personally Disregard this entire game as NON-CANNON. AND here is why. You know how many endings this game has? NINE. NINE RADICALLY DIFFERENT ENDINGS. Conversely, take chrono trigger for example, all the endings are functionally the same, only with further advancement of the plot.
However...Aside from the story, It is a good faithful game, But i give the control slops out of, It realy hurts to play the game seriously for more than even an hour...

Yeah, the game is fun...but not fun enough. It's like every single level is in all-range mode. And I'm not a huge fan of games that rely so heavily on the touch screen. As for the story, Nintendo said at one point that if they made another Star Fox game, it would begin somewhere in the middle of Star Fox Command where all the stories could semi-line up and therefore none of the endings would be 100% accurate. I wish I had a source, but it was a couple years ago when I read it...

Ending thoughts.
Adventures and Assault. Both did things right. Adventures did the on foot things right. Assault did the mixed medium controls (except the on foot areas) right.
Either give us an adventure game, or another rail shooter.
On that note...Im going to go play Assault again (the final level, fun as hell)

I disagree. I want a more polished Assault. I don't want another Adventure game, as fun as it was, and I feel like going back to strictly on-rails would be taking a step back. They need to build on what they've got and continue to improve, not run back with their tail in between their legs so they can stick to what they KNOW they can do correctly. However you have inspired me to ALSO boot up Assault once again.

I really liked assault and command's multiplayer a lot, and I don't see which level design you're talking about that you din't like in Assault, Strype.

I used to play adventures all the time. Now, I can't even stay awake. No real instant gratification. Too quiet most of the time.

I agree about the Assault level design. As for Adventures, I agree that it doesn't have as much replay value as the other games, though as long as you give it about a year in between each playthrough it's still fun. Though it HAS been about 2 since I played it last now that I think about it.

It boils down to decent design with bad handling. Its as if the on foot levels were designed for an intimately different control set up. So It might just be me miss seeing what is just incompatible design (that isnt to say, 3rd person shooters are bad....go play jet force Gemini designers of assault. That is how you do it)

All I'm going to say here (since I already voiced my disagreement about Assault above) is that Jet Force Gemini was created by Rareware, the designers of Star Fox Adventures. It was Namco that created Star Fox Assault and they had nothing to do with Gemini.

 

[Strype McClaine]

As for the Laylat wars, Plot not pilot. The rival starwolf, the all range mode were all from starfox 2.

I guess the control system in Assault is a matter of taste. I still mourn the day that Rare Ware left nintendo, and dream of the joys that could have been, great full that Conker was released before the split. Adventures is realy really close to perfection but isn't; Assault, tries too hard; and Command seems like a half assed attempt but gets realy close to some killer ideas (again, I love the turn based aspect blending with real time combat)

Which leads me to think, It was Namco?! Really? I mean, I know Jet force was Rare, but I was useing it as a comparison to controls. (god I love that game)....

I have to wonder then, is namco getting too big and they are just sub developer-ing things. I bring up the problems with the Modern Atari as a publisher.....AND if you dont know about this, well, check the myriad of lawsuits from the developers to Atari right now (I DO love what they are doing with the "TALES OF" series, to namco's credit)

You know, I forgot about the voice inconsistency (AND PLEASE have the actors back from Adventures...and Character design, I loathe the Assault fox uniform) gee wis that was a can of piss off worms I even forgot about.

All gripes aside. Starfox always felt like it needed alot more love than it got. There is so little source that Cannon can barely be established...With the age of random mammal platforming action gone in our 16-32 bit past, It feels like there still is a place....for [cue echo effect] FURRIES IN SSSSSPPPPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCEEE

[[Note: I Do love star fox still]]

 

[Shadowking]

As for the Laylat wars, Plot not pilot. The rival starwolf, the all range mode were all from starfox 2.

Ok that clears up all my questions on that front, thank you.

I guess the control system in Assault is a matter of taste. I still mourn the day that Rare Ware left nintendo, and dream of the joys that could have been, great full that Conker was released before the split. Adventures is realy really close to perfection but isn't; Assault, tries too hard; and Command seems like a half assed attempt but gets realy close to some killer ideas (again, I love the turn based aspect blending with real time combat)

As I may have mentioned before, Rare being sold was the sole reason for my move over to XBox 360. And yeah, I'm still not sure how you could NOT love Assault. What is it about the on-foot controls that irks you?

Which leads me to think, It was Namco?! Really? I mean, I know Jet force was Rare, but I was useing it as a comparison to controls. (god I love that game)....

Yup, it was Namco. Hence the reason you can unlock Xevious instead of something like Jet Pac.

I have to wonder then, is namco getting too big and they are just sub developer-ing things. I bring up the problems with the Modern Atari as a publisher.....AND if you dont know about this, well, check the myriad of lawsuits from the developers to Atari right now (I DO love what they are doing with the "TALES OF" series, to namco's credit)

I don't see this as a problem, and at any rate, it was quite obviously Nintendo's choice to whore out the franchise to other developers. Nintendo is always the publisher, but if I remember correctly, the developer has changed for every game since Lylat Wars.

You know, I forgot about the voice inconsistency (AND PLEASE have the actors back from Adventures...and Character design, I loathe the Assault fox uniform) gee wis that was a can of piss off worms I even forgot about.

Since each game had different developers, the different voice actors sort of makes sense...but NO. Do NOT use the voice actors from Adventures. Lylat Wars had the best VAs. And I like all of the different outfits throughout the games, even the Smash Bros outfits for Fox and Falco.

All gripes aside. Starfox always felt like it needed alot more love than it got. There is so little source that Cannon can barely be established...With the age of random mammal platforming action gone in our 16-32 bit past, It feels like there still is a place....for [cue echo effect] FURRIES IN SSSSSPPPPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCEEE

[[Note: I Do love star fox still]]

Yeah if it got more attention it could easily become my favorite franchise.