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Philosophy

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Shade, Nov 9, 2006.

  1. Shade

    Shade The forgotten angel

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    I'm just wondering if any one on here values philosophy and so on. If you've read any of my previous posts, you'll probably just see your standard teen gamer. I prefer to think of myself as a brilliant philosopher, perhaps greater than Socrates (not really:lol:). Although I'm 15 I am NOT a child. The number of years you have been on this earth does not determine your age or maturity. So post anything and everything, as long as it's nothing as dangerous as politics:p



    *Note* Has anyone read Socrates's "Last Apology"? I agree wholeheartedly on his views on death.
     
  2. White-Wolf

    White-Wolf WiiChat Member

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    Wait until you go to collage, you will love it, you will be oozing with ideas.

    I am sad to say I have not read the book that you have enjoyed, but i think i can say my view of the world falls in-between Socrates and Nietzsche.

    Their is something grander then this world of the flesh, yet I think to give up this world fully, for the more perfect tomorrow that exists in nirvana, will only lead us into despair of this world. See Ted haggard. He lived for a world that is not the world in witch he lives in, and it distroyed him. We still need to eat the fruits of Dionysus to be healthy.

    yung though i think it pritty spot on.
     
    #2 White-Wolf, Nov 9, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2006
  3. Napalmbrain

    Napalmbrain WiiChat Member

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    I'm certainly interested in philosophy, especially since I study physics (which attempts to answer those "big questions"). I can't say I've read about the subject as much as I would have liked though. My views have been influenced by Locke, Hume and Mill, although not entirely.

    My high school offered philosophy as an A-level course the year after I left- I'd have taken it if I could have. On the plus side, university's great if you like to debate about this sort of stuff.
     
  4. ABC

    ABC Banned

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    Philosophy is definitely most interesting. I have taken a liking to Quantum Physics also. I am all about great thinkers, new ideas, and the world around me.
     
  5. Inspire

    Inspire '';aM;'' Inspire

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    Philosophy is cool. I like Socrates, but I can say that I'm probably most influenced by Aristotle.
     
  6. Shade

    Shade The forgotten angel

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    Here is a rather large excerpt from the Last Apology that I find most true

    "Let us reflect in another way, and we shall see that there is great reason to hope that death is a good, for one of two things: - either death is a state of nothingness and utter unconsciousness, or, as men say, there is a change and migration of the soul from this world to another. Now if you suppose that there is no consciousness, but a sleep like the sleep of him who is undisturbed even by the sight of dreams, death will be an unspeakable gain. For if a person were to select the night in which his sleep was undisturbed even by dreams, and were to compare with this the other days and nights of his life, and then were to tell us how many days and nights he had passed in the course of his life better and more pleasantly than this one, I think that any man, I will not say a private man, but even the great king, will not find many such days or nights, when compared with the others. Now if death is like this, I say that to die is gain; for eternity is then only a single night. But if death is the journey to another place, and there, as men say, all the dead are, what good, O my friends and judges, can be greater than this? If indeed when the pilgrim arrives in the world below, he is delivered from the professors of justice in this world, and finds the true judges who are said to give judgment there, Minos and Rhadamanthus and Aeacus and Triptolemus, and other sons of God who were righteous in their own life, that pilgrimage will be worth making. What would not a man give if he might converse with Orpheus and Musaeus and Hesiod and Homer? Nay, if this be true, let me die again and again."
     
  7. wiiCrazy

    wiiCrazy wiiiing since 11/19/06

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    i like philosophy also, however i like to simply link what i'm saying to modern day illustrations. i think however that one of my most profound discoveries about myself, particularly in the realm of gaming, was when kirt kobain said in one of his glorious ballads, and i quote "Here we are now....entertain us."
     
  8. linkzeldagame

    linkzeldagame Posts when necessary.

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    I also like philosophy and I must say I don't believe in many religious bashings about how we are treated when we die. I am also not sure if there is any proof that we actually leave our bodies when we die, despite the overwhelming first hand experience some people have described during NDEs. Death may be the 'night' of the 'day' in a philosophical sense but it also can be the finalty of life. From where we are created, we go back to 'dirt'. So the question begs - How was life created with 'intent', or soul, and how can that 'intent' just disappear when we die? How can our bodies know when the right time to 'die' is when it doesn't show up in our bodies chemically or physically? Sure our bodies breakdown into 'dirt' but how can our bodies know when the time is ready for it to break down? If we were without 'intent' then we would be technically dead... right?

    There is one philosophical perspective that I believe is correct and its apparent all around us: Everything is geometrical and follows certain geometrical rules. (As mentioned by Plato) If we look at our own physiology, we can see that we follow certain geometrical rules. The same applies for just about every single bio organism encountered.

    It then begs the question - if these geometrical shapes are so prevalent in every life form on Earth, and in the universe then wouldn't studying them and uncovering the real intent of their existence would enable us to understand ourselves and others more?
     
  9. $?wii?$

    $?wii?$ WiiChat Member

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    so in a way philosophy is against religion and uses science to prove things?? correct??
     
  10. Napalmbrain

    Napalmbrain WiiChat Member

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    I don't know what to think about the idea of the "soul". Do we have one, and if so what is it? I've always believed we have a free will, which I guess suggests that we may have some kind of soul, or at least a similar concept. I'm non-religious, so I don't really believe in afterlife, which I guess means that if the soul exists, then I think it's as finite as the body. By the way, I'm not sure that accounts of NDEs count as overwhelming evidence, or even good evidence. I'm not saying those people who claim they've had an NDE are intentionally lying, but these experiences are currently impossible to test and they're somewhat unfalsifiable.

    I think Plato got it about right there. And it's not just in biology either- In physics there are patterns and symmetries everywhere, from tiny atoms (e.g. ionic lattices) to huge galaxies (most large galaxies are either spiral or elliptical shaped). While it's true the universe isn't entirely symmetrical, it seems to be very close to it.

    Not really, it uses both science and religion. It depends on the beliefs of the person actually talking about it.
     
  11. Jenova

    Jenova Final Distance

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    I'm not sure if this is philosophy, but I always get shivers when I read this:

    "It has become increasinly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity."

    -Albert Einstein

    Another thing:

    "I'm not exactly sure how big the universe actually is, nobody does. But I do know it's BIG. So big, I can't imagine it just being made by scientific processes, some divine figure creating it seems most believable."

    -not sure who wrote this...
     
    #11 Jenova, Nov 14, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2006
  12. White-Wolf

    White-Wolf WiiChat Member

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    Not science, but Logic and Reason if you want to call science, i guess it kind of is. I guess you could call philosophy a social science ....

    I have come to my beliefs through thinking and experiencing, rather then being told or persuaded.

    Philosophy is a religion in a way, but its free form that’s powered by thoughts and ideas. Rather then wants and desires.

    Buddhism is probably the closest religion that’s really a philosophy, while I think Christianity and Muslim faiths are the furthest away. They are after all only one half brother apart from echother.
     
    #12 White-Wolf, Nov 14, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2006
  13. linkzeldagame

    linkzeldagame Posts when necessary.

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    Hmmm... I attend a christian based youth group on fridays and as much as I refuse to be labelled christian or such, I go there as it fills up some of the nagging questions that can't be fulfilled by science. No don't get me wrong, I'm not a christians for that would mean I have to believe in Jesus and God and the Holy spirit as well as the biblical 'fact' that Jesus came down and died for our sins.

    I also have come to my beliefs through thinking and experience rather than written facts that are claimed as the 'right' answer. If I take a 'fact' from a book I try to back it up with real events. I don't believe in quantum physics wholly as it requires me to use specific instruments that can allow me to gain access to the quantum universe. IMO what happens at the quantum universe should be reflected at the macroverse. Spirals are prevalent in quantum recorded events and that is reflected in the use of spirals and vortexes all around us, so I can believe in that part of quantum physics.

    Established science is a religion, one that does not include God and backs up its theories with hard evidence. If there is no hard evidence to back it up either it is discarded or shelved away as a hypothesis.

    Religion is a faith based cult organisation that does not rely on evidence to back up its claims as it knows people will believe in anything if they're taught to believe in it. The God concept can be a religion - there's no evidence it exists yet people feel satisfied that an immortal and invisible entity is all around us. The way he is viewed is dependent on the belief the person has developed since he or she was a baby.

    Buddhism is just about the closest a religion can attain a philosophical viewpoint on the 'meaning of life'. Any philosophy that teaches karma and to forgive others genuinely leans towards a buddhist perspective on life.

    Christianity is similar to buddhism in that you 'turn the other cheek' and respect people's opinions and values, while at the same time helping them become christians when they are interested. But it doesn't believe in the whole 'nirvana - samsara' cycle that the buddhist religion teaches. Everyone only has one shot in life and whether they believe in Jesus determines their passage to heaven.

    The muslim religion is strangely similar to Christianity, but it doesn't encompass the buddhist approach to life. Does anyone here know anything about the muslim religion?
     
  14. Close

    Close 幸せ雑&

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    I forget what Philosophy is :( (sorry) but here is some great philosophers and great orators (I think) Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle :thumbsup:
     
  15. DBloke

    DBloke The last original
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    one bit from me
    "Enjoy life there are no coutinues in the real world"
     
  16. $?wii?$

    $?wii?$ WiiChat Member

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    White-Wolf when you said rather than being told and persuaded... that is true. alot of people dont have freedom to choose what they want to do because of the pressure from there parents.

    i am a muslim but not a very strong one{i even get pissed ;)} but i do think that islam is very close to science just listen to talks by Zakhir Naik and i can garauntee he will convince you...
     
  17. White-Wolf

    White-Wolf WiiChat Member

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    That’s ok. I see a logic flaw in 3 major religions all claiming that god says only they are right while the other two are wrong. Its like a doppelganger logic error. What ones the real one?

    Islam was created because Abraham? had 2 suns and no one knows what sun was the one in the prophecy. So at that point Judaism split. around 0 bc/ad another group called Christians arose because they claim god made a errata to life itself. Well they all say they are right and all have proof that they are right, so I must assume all are right, or none are right? i mean logicly i cant pick one because they all have a little bit of fact to them, and all have a good persuasive argument. Hell if i have 3 wiis to choose from, in 3 different boxes, no choice is the wrong choice, but if all the boxes say the other 2 boxes doesn’t include a wii what do i do?

    I think each has very good lines and teachings, but prescribing to one fully is missing the bigger picture, and missing out on what the others have to offer. all of them have wise men and all of them have extremists who ruin the words that they claim to follow.

    So ok.... we have these 3 religions, now the complex part comes in. we believe something we cant see and touch, from a history so far gone, we cant fully verify on facts alone. What about religions older then anything monotheistic. What about the polytheistic religions. how come god didn’t set them straight in their own life time. Case and point. Polytheistic religions are a hell of allot older then monotheistic religions. Does this mean god is a new god and didn’t create us? did we create him? Christianity trys to destroy science because their isn’t really a answer except for maybe the tower of Babylon argument, and but then you open a can of warms again. God wants us to be different from each other or he is a jackass and afraid we will become greater then he. So lets awesome he isn’t a jackass. He wants us to be different and worship whatever we feel like if he wants us to be different. If Christians or any major religion rains supreme, we are going against the wishes of god are we not?

    So this makes me think Its about goodness and not about what flavor of goodness that you prescribe to. Thus the idea Jesus or any religion is absolute is lafable as it will just create another tower of Babylon.

    lets say one religion is correct and its Christianity this time. Well what happens to a Buddhist on Tibet before it was discovered but after 0 ad? does he go to hell. if he goes to purgatory, is this right? This inches towards my trinity argument in another thread about if god can be good, powerful and knowable at the same time. I will post it if i can find it again. I wouldn’t want to restart it here.

    I believe that religions like Christianity want converts not because they want people saved, but because it affirms their idea. If more people think and believe what they do, its easier to have faith in something that cant be seen.

    I also have to wonder, if Christianity is the one true religion, how come there are so many religious sects. If it’s the one true religion?, wouldn’t their be only one version?

    But now you can see my dilemma… and why i have decided that learning philosophy is a much better alternative to religion. As religion is almost all or no other, while philosophy is more like science, and it’s only the truth until a better truth comes along.

    Sorry to get this on religion… philosophy has a distinct trait that if you talk about long enough, it will intertwine with religion and come full circle.

    I think Gorge Carlen is pretty good philosopher.
     
    #17 White-Wolf, Nov 15, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006
  18. ABC

    ABC Banned

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    "TO BEEEEEE or NOT to BEEEEE... That is thee QuestioN!"
     
  19. Inspire

    Inspire '';aM;'' Inspire

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    Absolute truth is a totality of logic. To say that all truth is relative is to say that relativism is absolutely relativistic, which is contradictory. Of course, you could deny the very foundations of logic and get away with it, but then you'd have nothing - not relativism.

    It's analogous to why topologists don't really do a whole lot with Non-Hausdorff spaces. There's nothing that can really be said about them because they lack any structure.

    ====

    To say that philosophy relies solely on logic and reason is a little off the mark. Logic and reason can't do a thing until you accept some axioms or premises. Without these, there's nothing to talk about. So, philosophy must take these axioms on faith.
     
  20. White-Wolf

    White-Wolf WiiChat Member

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    The idea that truth is 100% relative i think is wrong. Everyone knows what a triangle is, just depending on where we are, we call it something different.

    The idea of a triangle is perfect. It is the highest form of truth. Everyone in the universe can agree what a triangle looks like. It is absolute truth. We will always recognize a triangle and their will be no dispute on if something in the real world is or is not a triangle.


    If we replace triangle with love or god, things get infinitely more complex. We find that in the real world, it is far too complex to find an absolute love. Even as a idea its not as solid as a triangle. We know that our parents should love us, and we sometimes know what is or is not love, but at times its fuzzy. If you give a bum on the street 10$ was that a loving gesture? It may seem that yes it was loving, but now he goes and buys some crack and dies from that charity. It doesn’t even have to be at such an extreme. You give a guy on the street 10$. He buys food, you find him the next day and expects another 10$. Your charity has made him dependent on you for his well being. What if you didn’t give him that 10$? Maybe he would have found a job, but you still dident give direct help when it was needed.

    A philosophers ultimate dream is to find an equation to things like love and god that cannot be argued or contradicted and is a absolute truth much in the way how a triangle is a triangle. Most likely these questions can never have a true complete answer, but philosophers still try and they do come pretty close. Some say only god knows the true equations… or maybe its so simple that we just overlooked it.
     
    #20 White-Wolf, Nov 15, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006

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