Thread of Smash

[Tragonight]

You misunderstand me, I said ness = lucas

You mean they're not clones, but exactly the same character? That's even more incorrect.

but i would like they look like fox and falco or marth and Ike. They are from the same game but are very different.

Oh. Just because they are from the same *series* doesn't mean they are clones. Marth and Ike are completely and utterly different.

About project M, I tried few match then noticed Marth had a bad air-conrol compared to brawl then stopped. In brawl, when my opponent is out of the field, i can strike him 2 to 4 time in air before to come back and grap the ground, at project M i die after the 1st strike.

Then you need to learn how to master change. It specifically states in Marth's P:M Character Page.

Brawl Marth may be all about Forward-Air camping and grab release shenanigans, but this Marth is about tech-chasing, edgeguarding, and of course, Ken combos. He has all the tools that made him top tier in Melee, and that means that despite his girlish appearance, he is no prince to be trifled with. He is a combo and pressure fiend, and though the spacing is tricky to master, an early tipper Forward-Smash can change the tide of a match.

 

[ellord]

You mean they're not clones, but exactly the same character? That's even more incorrect.


Oh. Just because they are from the same *series* doesn't mean they are clones. Marth and Ike are completely and utterly different.


Then you need to learn how to master change. It specifically states in Marth's P:M Character Page.

1. U still misunderstood me.
2. I wonder if your trolling me or just stupid. What you dont understand in Marth is not Ike. I never said they was same.
3. I dont care to manage an unofficial game. I play Brawl.
4. Forward-Air camping? ​Only noob spam.

 

[Mr. MR]

You misunderstand me, I said ness = lucas, but i would like they look like fox and falco or marth and Ike. They are from the same game but are very different.

Appearance hardly matters. If they play differently then it shouldn't be a problem and they do play very differently. Playstyle is far more important than aesthetics.

About project M, I tried few match then noticed Marth had a bad air-conrol compared to brawl then stopped. In brawl, when my opponent is out of the field, i can strike him 2 to 4 time in air before to come back and grap the ground, at project M i die after the 1st strike. And the 2nd reason is because in PM, I cant use his special side, Marth stop his combo after the 2nd hit and never finish it.

That's because Brawl has moon gravity which makes it much slower. PM has Melee gravity which plays faster and feels more intense. Marth's aerial game is really good in Melee. Ever heard of the Ken Combo? As for his Dancing Blade, Brawl took away the hardcore competitive play with three things: Adding Tripping, Removing L-Canceling, and Adding Easy Buffers. In Brawl you could buffer the next attack in Dancing Blade. This is not the case in Melee. You need to input the next attack after the last one finishes. You can't just spam Side B and expect it to work. You need to press the button on time. In Brawl there is a 10 frame buffer. In Melee there is a 0 frame buffer, which means you need to practice to make it as fast as possible.

 

[Tragonight]

1. U still misunderstood me.

What are you trying to say? If you think Ness and Lucas are clones, play Project M again.

2. I wonder if your trolling me or just stupid. What you dont understand in Marth is not Ike. I never said they was same.

I was just proving my point. There are no clones in Project M, and there probably never will be, what with how good the PMBR is.

3. I dont care to manage an unofficial game. I play Brawl.

Alright, get owned by the unbalanced tiers, infinite chain grabbing, and slow combos. If that's how you have fun, then so be it.

4. Forward-Air camping? ​Only noob spam.

Then what attack do you use "2 to 4 times in the air before coming back"? D-Air? I can only imagine.

 

[ellord]

Appearance hardly matters. If they play differently then it shouldn't be a problem and they do play very differently. Playstyle is far more important than aesthetics.

That's because Brawl has moon gravity which makes it much slower. PM has Melee gravity which plays faster and feels more intense. Marth's aerial game is really good in Melee. Ever heard of the Ken Combo? As for his Dancing Blade, Brawl took away the hardcore competitive play with three things: Adding Tripping, Removing L-Canceling, and Adding Easy Buffers. In Brawl you could buffer the next attack in Dancing Blade. This is not the case in Melee. You need to input the next attack after the last one finishes. You can't just spam Side B and expect it to work. You need to press the button on time. In Brawl there is a 10 frame buffer. In Melee there is a 0 frame buffer, which means you need to practice to make it as fast as possible.

Playstyle is about the player. I can still use a similar playstyle with lucas and ness.

So this gravity affect the overall play of all character. Sadly I dont manage this change, unless they increase speed of everything proportionally, like we can do in special brawl. (game in fast version).

I never played melee, so i dont know about L-canceling and buffer frame and I have to admit they shouldnt remove them. But 10 frame will request a very good ping if we want to play online.

I was talking about brawl for ness and lucas, didnt see them on PM. About project M its roy and Marth, yes they are clone because they use the same move. These character are different like different range, recorvery, damage, knocback, but im talking about MOVES.

 

[Tragonight]

I was talking about brawl for ness and lucas, didnt see them on PM.

Go do that now. You'll see how much they changed between the two, especially Lucas.

About project M its roy and Marth, yes they are clone because they use the same move. These character are different like different range, recorvery, damage, knocback, but im talking about MOVES.

You just contradicted yourself. Same moveset doesn't mean they are clones, nor do they have the same playstyle.

 

[ellord]

Same move and same similar shape with different stat from code. Its how Marth and Roy are. Yes its a clone. If roy is different, dont give only him a longer sword, change his style fight, his moves.... Otherwise If i manage Marth, i'll manage Roy too, because they are clone!

I take a character, I change his skin but keep the shape, i keep his moves but edit his stat then Its a new character. I would prefer 20 original character than 30 with many clones.

 

[Tragonight]

They did change his playstyle. Compare Marth and Roy in Melee. Marth is high-tier and Roy is low. Yet you say they are the same. How is that possible?

 

[ellord]

Because Marth's stat are in overall better than Roy.

Not just playstyle, i want different style fight too. I mean the way the character fight.

 

[Mr. MR]

Playstyle is about the player. I can still use a similar playstyle with lucas and ness.

Playstyle is part player part character. You can't Shine Spike and Pillar with Jigglypuff and Jigglypuff is not as fast as Fox. In short you can't play Jigglypuff like Fox. But players can use Jigglypuff's set of tools how they deem they should be used. The Character decides the limits of the Playstyle and the Player uses everything in those limits to define their personal variation of the character's Playstyle.

Even in Brawl Lucas has different tools then Ness so playstyle will reflect it. If you play them the same then you aren't pushing them to their limits.

So this gravity affect the overall play of all character. Sadly I dont manage this change, unless they increase speed of everything proportionally, like we can do in special brawl. (game in fast version).

Ok I am calling you out on this one. You said before that you don't care for unofficial Smash games. Assuming you are talking specifically about Project M, it is widely accepted throughout the Smash community as a tournament worthy game, worthy enough to put lots of money and time into it. If you still have a problem with it being unofficial then I challenge you to master it. It plays just like any other Smash (but more closer to Melee). If you claim to have skill in this game series then it shouldn't be too hard to pick up Project M. Adaptability is a trait of champions and masters.

If you haven't noticed with Melee, it is much faster than Brawl, but only if you are willing to push the boundaries. If you continue to play Project M like moon gravity Brawl, then you will be much slower than everyone else. To answer your question directly, yes it indeed does speed up everything.

I never played melee, so i dont know about L-canceling and buffer frame and I have to admit they shouldnt remove them. But 10 frame will request a very good ping if we want to play online.

0 Frame Buffer is really hard to get used to after you have been playing in 10 Frame Buffer. I should know, I did it. If things get too laggy online I activate Project M's 3 Frame Buffer or higher if it's too bad.

Not just playstyle, i want different style fight too. I mean the way the character fight.

Seems like you are looking for Project M but refuse to see it.

 

[Tragonight]

Not just playstyle, i want different style fight too. I mean the way the character fight.

Playstyle and "style fight" are the same thing, I believe.

Roy's Double Edge Dance is deeper and has newer variations if you want new moves. B-Air, F-Tilt, and D-Smash are also completely new.

 

[ellord]

No style fight and styleplay isnt the same. Style fight is example : Marth only attack with his sword, Ike can throw his sword or use his fist and feet, link use ranged attack and one of his air attack is with the feet instead the sword. Marth smash up is a line, Ike drawn an semi-circle (so ike smash up has more side range).... style fight is the way the character fight, styleplay is the way you use a character. A original character need an original style fight, not same as another character with different stat.

You didnt understand me about the speed, I mean if they increase gravity speed, they should increase PROPORTIONALLY everything. Its why i can brawl in accelerated mode but not project M.

I know project M is appcepted from the community and is in many tournament, but its still just a mode and not the original and official game.

Yeah i could maybe like project M, if they didnt changed so much my main character.

 

[Tragonight]

Yeah i could maybe like project M, if they didnt changed so much my main character.

I thought the same at first. And then I got used to fast, QDC-ing Ike.

Change is something you're just going to have to adapt to. Most of the time, it's for the better.

 

[ellord]

Ok I'll give another try to this game...But what i call clone is in all super smash bros.

 

[Mr. MR]

No style fight and styleplay isnt the same. Style fight is example : Marth only attack with his sword, Ike can throw his sword or use his fist and feet, link use ranged attack and one of his air attack is with the feet instead the sword. Marth smash up is a line, Ike drawn an semi-circle.... style fight is the way the character fight, styleplay is the way you use a character. An original character need an original style fight, not same as another character with different stat.

Appearances don't matter. I don't care if they are all stick figures with swords as long as they play differently. Appearances do not affect gameplay, so stop bringing it up. If you do I will get angry. You need to take a step back and understand what a game really is. ONEs and ZEROs. I don't see swords in there.

You didnt understand me about the speed, I mean if they increase gravity speed, they should increase PROPORTIONALLY everything. Its why i can brawl in accelerated mode but not project M.

I did understand you. They pumped everything up. Also remember it was Brawl that changed the Proportions not Project M. Melee has a much better Proportion and Project M capitalizes on it. The reason why you can't play Project M but you can play in accelerated mode is because Project M is still faster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXgpGBbh5r8

If you have been to a Melee Tourney the first thing you notice is the sound of everyones controller being abused. 8 commands a second is basically standard.

I know project M is appcepted from the community and is in many tournament, but its still just a mode and not the original and official game.

And what exactly does that imply? Nothing. Does it matter who it came from if it has the soul and spirit of Smash? Project M is a more Tourny Viable Smash Game than Brawl. It plays the same as any Smash game but the limits are much much much higher than in Brawl. You should be able to master it if you have the Smash skills you claim to have, mod or not.

I could go philosophical but I wont. Not yet. Official doesn't mean much. It was Sakurai himself who shunned the competitive scene not the community. Project M is simply a response to Sakurai's Tournament Incompetent Brawl from the Community. It's a message, not just a mod and the message says, 'If you wont give us the game we want, we will make our own.' And that is what Project M is. Not simply a mod made by people who have spare time on their hands. This is a master piece, hand coded by people who hold the Smash Series with such passion that they refuse to let Smash die competitively.

Yeah i could maybe like project M, if they didnt changed so much my main character.

Learn to adapt. I did, and I actually enjoy playing Marth in Project M once I got over moon gravity. Although I wish they would have given him a buff from Melee but then again his Metagame is more evolved than the rest of the cast.