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Why MetaKnight (MK) is the most Broken Character in SSBB

Discussion in 'Smash Brothers' started by RPGMasterTurk91, Jan 25, 2009.

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  1. RPGMasterTurk91

    RPGMasterTurk91 Turkish RPG Master

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    EDIT: It's been over eight (8) months since I last edited this opening thread! Throughout the entire thread, you will see debates and discussion on what "broken" really means, or if it should just be called "overpowered". The whole 50% majority concept is also clarified throughout the thread for those of you who have read any of it already. Overall, it is a very interesting and vital discussion to Brawlers and any competitive gamers alike, because the overall concept itself applies to any game that encounters such a problem of having a broken character. Feel free to comment; don't just view it, if you're actually interested say something about it, whether you agree or disagree.


    Wow I haven’t written something this long since my “Misconceptions About the Wii” passage lol. And yes, these are all my own words.

    For those of you interested in this topic, you will probably find yourself enjoying what I have to say. For those of you who were hoping for a quick read, just skim through everything that I wrote.


    In my humble and unimportant opinion, Meta Knight is a broken character.


    Broken: A fan-made word, it’s basically an adjective used to describe a character that is unbalanced, where the advantages overwhelmingly and unreasonably outweigh the disadvantages of that character. It is important to note this very simple concept that requires some thinking: A character can only be broken if the majority of the people (over 50%) believe that he or she is broken. If this is the case, the character is automatically deemed “broken”. If there was nobody to say that a certain character is broken, it does not necessarily mean that they are not broken, but if more than half of the players believe that the character is indeed broken, he or she is definitely broken, because you are dealing with two choices, where a unanimous vote applies. Thus, claiming that a character ISN'T broken after this fact is deemed invalid.

    First of all, my purpose is NOT to attack to any MK user. I'm just venting some of the issues that have forced me to believe that MK is absolutely broken. Also, I'm open to a healthy discussion on the issue.

    First of all, let’s break down the elements of a character in Super Smash Brother’s Brawl. Chances are, you know what these are already, but reviewing them in my context will help you to better understand my point. Besides their Final Smashes (as these do not matter in a no-item match and are generally not allowed in standard matches), characters are defined by their:

    Power:
    The amount of damage each move deals

    Strength:
    The actual knockback of the move, which determines how far the opponent will go when hit. The weight of the opponent also influences how far he or she (the opponent) will go when hit.

    Weight:
    Known as “defense” to some RPG fans, the weight of a character determines how far they will go when hit by a move. A heavier character can generally be comboed easily due to little movement at low percentages, and racking up damage is generally easier. Lighter characters are generally more difficult to make contact with, as they are usually physically smaller and move faster.

    Horizontal Recovery:
    The potential for a character to move (in air) horizontally (left to right or vice versa).

    Vertical Recovery:
    The potential for a character to move vertically (up).

    Run Speed:
    How fast a character moves on land

    Air Speed:
    How fast a character moves in the air

    Attack Speed:
    How fast or slow an attack takes to use. Some moves have a lot of start-up lag (Ness’s forward smash) while others have virtually none (Kirby’s or Marth’s forward smash) and can therefore be unleashed quickly. Also, the time allowed in between attacks. Some moves lag at the end while others can be unleashed in a flash. (Fox, Lucario, or Wolf’s forward smash)

    Throws:
    The ability of all characters to grab, hit, then throw an opponent, throws are characterized by their reach, power, strength, and most importantly, strategic usage. Many throws are designed for strategic purposes alone (Pikachu or Sonic’s throws, none of which are strong or powerful).

    Projectiles:
    The ability of a character to use moves that travel away from the character and harms the opponent if proper contact is made; mainly used for racking up damage from afar or to temporarily stun the enemy by knocking them back for strategic purposes.

    Range:
    The “reach” of a character’s moves; determines how close or far the character has to be in order for the move to make contact. This includes dashes and throws.

    Priority:
    The ability of a move to literally pierce an opponent’s move and attack them rather than cancelling out the move altogether. Certain moves have higher priorities than others, and certain characters can have a general high priority with all moves (Meta Knight)

    Phew…

    With that said and out of the way:

    Now, we all know that if you couple certain characteristics to a character, a deadly and unfair combination can ensue. For example, your heavy characters are generally powerful and strong (and cannot be KOd easily, hence being heavy). This advantage however has to be balanced by something else. If you have a character who is hard to kill and has moves that kill at low percentages if contact is made, he or she has to be slow and getting those hits in should be made more difficult (generally by increasing the lag time and making them more predictable and dodgeable). Take Bowser for example. He is the heaviest character in the game, making him the hardest to kill at higher percentages, but he has the poorest vertical recovery, can be effortlessly comboed, and is very slow. Making a character heavy, strong, and powerful along with excellent vertical and horizontal recovery is nothing short of a horrible mistake (Snake fits all this criteria, but he’s another topic).

    Now let’s take this concept of, in short, “coupling certain characteristics to make an unrealistic combination” and relate it to Meta Knight. Meta Knight: is very fast both on land and in the air, has unheard of priority, has lots of range which also helps to keep him away from damage, maximum vertical and horizontal recovery--all of them damage-inducing (and are therefore still subject to MK’s great range, priority, etc.), a long-range grab that deals good damage and has an excellent strategic standing, as well as a long dash, both conveniently supported by a high running speed, and finally, MK has decent power and strength. But wait! Meta Knight is a light character! Okay…so he reaps the benefits of being light by not being combo-able and being fast, SO what. His mixed advantages make him the hardest-to-hit character in the game, anyways. Oh! My apologies, I didn’t even touch on that yet.

    Edgeguard? I don't think so. Not with his up B that will send you flying to the other side of the screen if it hits you. And if you manage to avoid it, he can still glide (giving him virtually infinite horizontal recovery), then attack at will without a penalty and a high chance of hitting you (as it has disgusting range and will pierce most of your efforts to attack him in the air). Or maybe MK will use his side B and pierce through any attack that you decide to throw at him on the edge.

    "But Meta Knight is very weak, he can hardy kill anyone". At first, I thought this was true. But it isn't and is far from so. Meta Knight has enough kill moves, more than sub par character like Sonic. They are fairly decent when it comes to actual strength and power, but certainly not weak. The problem here is the fact that MK almost always hits you with them—and with little effort, thanks to his unheard of priority and range. His B moves also act as excellent recovery tools that will also almost always hit you thanks to their again unrealistic speed, range, and priority. Due to his great flexibility in the air, he can kill you at low percentages whether you are high in the sky or semi-close to the edge, even when you are air-dodging and being very careful (semi-close meaning off the stage to the left or right in Final Destination, for example).

    And even if that doesn't kill you, this small sphere of doom can chase you pretty easily through the stage and knock you out with one of its multiple jumps (thanks to his maximum recovery, air speed, priority, and moves with high knockback in the air that can kill you at low percentages and leave heavy characters immobile and in MK’s complete control off-stage).

    Finally, MK’s lack of projectiles does not make him any worse. With his unrealistic range and priority, his lack of projectiles actually help him by not taking up a B move—all of which are excellent recovery tools and are damage-inducing. I personally find the Mach Tornado (B) and Up B the most unbalanced advantages in the game, being both for recovery and easy damage with very little chance of penalty (taking damage) for MK, as you can rarely bypass it. The Mach Tornado is the closest to an unblockable/undodgeable attack in the game (with exception to Final Smashes of course, which I am not concerned with at the moment).

    I alluded to this before, but here’s the main point about MK and his “broken-ness”: Speed+Priority+Range, and MK has them in ALL of their aspects (read my personal descriptions of each of these for all the aspects of them again if you need; for example, range in general is how far your moves can hit from where you are standing/floating, but can also include dash and grab range, which are those included aspects I was talking about), is a deadly combination and is a mistake to put in this type of game, where your goal (in general and almost always) is to rack up enough damage and send your opponent off the edge to the end. You need to be extremely careful in order to avoid being hit and comboed by MK. It requires careful planning and spacing. On the other hand, you can play MK with little to no concentration, even recklessly, without much penalty.

    How can you put a character in the game who has more priority and range alone than most the other characters in the whole game? Now add speed to that already unrealistic equation, and you get all the more broken. You get a bad mistake. Something that should have never happened, a rigged match from the beginning even when the players are equally experienced, because the makers messed up on this character by giving him too much of a certain “trait” if you will, one that is incomparable to any of the other characters and therefore “unfair/uneven”. Before I go, I want you (the reader) to just imagine how a little mistake of going overboard can make a character very broken in an instant. I’ll help you through my example: Imagine Mr. Game and Watch just one weight class up: a mid-weight character instead of the 2nd lightest in the game. He would immediately be the most broken character in the game, wouldn’t you agree? The makers knew not to make him any heavier than they did, or he would easily be most unfair, cheap, and unbalanced character in the game. Not to mention everyone would find themselves picking this unrealistic mess. The truth is, not all characters in the game are made equal, and the one that has been especially overworked is clearly Meta Knight (and a few others, but that’s another story: in short, I feel Snake is far too heavy for what he is overall, and Ike is too powerful for his overall speed).

    The other thing I wanted to bring up was the “recent voting AGAINST the banning of Meta Knight in Tournaments by Smash Back Room (SBR)”. You know, the people that “really matter”. When people bring this up and try to shut up all opposing arguments by saying “that’s that, no matter how you look at it”, it doesn’t work. There’s a reason why the makers of the game didn’t want the character they messed up on banned. Who would be willing to admit that they messed up on a character giving them unrealistic advantages on their game and that they should be “removed” from matches that involve sacrifices (most tournaments are in essence a form of gambling, as you are risking your money). Apparently, 30% of the voters, which is a huge amount, believed that Meta Knight was indeed a mess up, that he should not be allowed in tournaments. The other 70% had the more “proper”, defensive mindset when voting. Remember, when 50% or more people believe that a character is broken, that is the end of the discussion: that character is definitely broken (has unrealistic advantages over all other characters in the game).

    Edit: To dumb it down by the furthest possible means, Meta Knight has unrealistic features that enable to him punish with extreme ease, and at the same time, punishing Meta Knight is made the least possible (again, thanks to those unrealistic features he was mistakenly given by the makers). Ever try edgeguarding an experienced Meta Knight (meaning not a new user) and succeeded? How often does an experienced Meta Knight take damage or give damage? How often does Meta have the means to grab and dash attack you "from afar"? How often are you in automatic danger just because you're off the field, even when you've taken little to no damage (especially as a heavy character)? And how many times has Meta Knight's recoveries failed him? Not a single character in the game can attest to all of the positive responses as Meta Knight can give to such questions. Finally, Speed+Range+Priority=unrealistic deadly combo not fit for the game when you compare how advantageous it is compared to all other aspects of the game.

    P.S. This took me only about an hour and a half to write, and I don’t usually write long passages about anything that has to do with video games. I just felt this was necessary, as I didn’t find any clear or straightforward “essays” written about this topic. Also, I don’t feel I waste my time writing about this stuff because I have underlying messages in them: this one seeks to show people to see the truth and to be reasonable when judging certain things and criteria. I know I will get a lot of stubborn MK mains aggressively trying to counter my claims. This does not go to say that I feel I am always right and better than everyone else. I also want people to look into things with an open mind and to not accept everything at face value. Also, people in general love to take the easiest way out of things and sometimes those "desperate attempts" are met by unjustified means. It would be nice if people could rethink their methods and have them be more legitimate as well as fair instead of trying to get the very best out of everything in a selfish way.
     
    #1 RPGMasterTurk91, Jan 25, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
  2. Splash_King

    Splash_King The Scrubbiest of Hunters

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    Ah, yes.. the first character discussion thread is about Meta and his broken nature. Congrats for claiming the first new thread after the "Wiichat Apocolypse", Turk.

    Ahem.. I honestly don't have anything in particular to argue your post, in fact, I mostly agree with it. There's only one thing I can disagree with - the lack of a projectile not hurting him. Yes, his Mach Tornado and especially Drill Rush disassemble an amazing slew of projectiles, but Mach Tornado doesn't cover enough, and Drill Rush activates just slightly too late to make for a quick counter on most projectiles, unless your enemy is an entire stage away.

    Still, this doesn't really hurt him much. A projectile would be just another of a thousand blessings for Meta, considering his speed and range, but his specials 99% make up for fighting other projectile users. I'm basically saying a projectile would be nice, but with or without it he's still a monster. :p

    Aaaanyways, that aside, I'll agree with Meta's monstrous capabilities. In the hands of a pro you'll need another high tier character to stand a true chance against someone just as good as you are, i.e. the tournament scene. Whether or not a character in Brawl can truly be deemed broken, Meta will be the one to be known as such if true.

    Oh, one last thing. Meta is certainly the best character in the game, but he is beatable. While most of the time if two players are equal in skill and one uses Meta, the Meta player might have an advantage, due to his impressive string of good match ups, but on a pro's level of gameplay the character doesn't make as much of a difference as the player themselves. I don't see the best Captain Falcon player beating M2K, however. Match ups make a difference, but skill levels make the game. Every match lost to a Meta can't be justified by Meta simply being broken, unless you had a terrible match up against Meta with your main, sub, etc., you lost out of skill. My point is, this may be the only arguable reason whether or not Meta can be deemed as "broken".
     
    #2 Splash_King, Jan 25, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
  3. Dorkfish

    Dorkfish I'm Good at Games

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    Yes. Somebody who shares my opinion. Bitchin. I've already said my thangers many times previously so you can take the reigns <.<
     
  4. RPGMasterTurk91

    RPGMasterTurk91 Turkish RPG Master

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    I see...awesome! I know it's pretty long, so how much of the entire thing did you read? If you were interested enough you probably read the whole thing lol. I'm just wondering how many people actually read it.

    Also, more replies (after reading what I wrote) would be nice, this is getting a lot of attention but no voice is to be heard :nonod:

    I appreciate your response! :cornut:

    Firstly, I've had this saved in Microsoft Word for a few days now--when I was ready to send it to the Wiichat Forums was when I found out that it was down. I found out later it was the first day of the "Wiichat Apocolypse" as you state. But thanks for taking note of that as I didn't realize this myself! Sweet!

    Secondly, I would like you to point out where I said that MK is unbeateable. I know by experience--and I have versed several pro MK users--that MK is of course beatable, I have beat them many times myself. It was during these same matches that I realized how "broken" Meta Knight really was, where I began to see unrealistic capabilities no other characters had. I took note of the deadly combination of speed, range, and priority and decided that this character was completely overworked and should have never been put in the game (at least with such advantages). Despite being that "beatable and light character", Meta Knight is the least beatable, in my opinion and argument, character in the game. Yeah, I know, someone has to be the least beatable--but not by THAT much as we have seen with MK. Remember when I said that even an inexperienced MK user can play even recklessly and not expect much penalty at all.

    Also, there is no such thing as an "unbeatable character" no matter how "pro" one is/calls him or herself. Just another simple concept.
     
    #4 RPGMasterTurk91, Jan 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2009
  5. Splash_King

    Splash_King The Scrubbiest of Hunters

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    Ah, I suppose I chose the wrong words when I said "he is beatable", I didn't mean to imply you said anything about him being unbeatable. I suppose I was(failing)to get across that he's not as fearsome as most give him credit for, ofcourse you do seem to understand his potential. My mistake.

    Anyhow, as you said there is always a "least beatable" character, always a best. I'll agree Meta is this one character, and is indeed too strong for even being the best. Nintendo can't win all the time. :lol:

    It's also true a naive player can use Meta recklessly with less risk than with other characters, but that doesn't make him easy to be used correctly by the player. A player who just picked up Meta only a month ago and is this aforementioned naive player, stands little chance against a pro who MASTERED another character, even if it's a bottom tier-er like Captain Falcon.

    My point is when it comes down to a real match between truly skilled opponents, simply choosing Meta due to a match up advantage or if they simply think top tiers are "that awesome" won't secure a win. Mastering a character through hard work will beat any mediocre Meta any day, especially if the person not using Meta is of a higher skill level. It may be true that Meta is certainly easy to use, but just because a character is easy to use won't mean you're using him/her to their maximum(or much lower)potential.

    So while Meta is easy to pick up and use, I'm not sure that justifies him being broken. As I mentioned before, a player who's mastered a character is going to massacre an average Meta, or any other character not on level with "mastered" for that matter.
     
    #5 Splash_King, Jan 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2009
  6. RPGMasterTurk91

    RPGMasterTurk91 Turkish RPG Master

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    Well...

    Again, I appreciate the reply and the add to this healthy discussion.

    When I said that using Meta Knight even recklessly can suffer little to no penalty, I think you misunderstood my point. My point was that Meta Knight in general has moves (most notably his B moves) that allow him to attack defensively--that is, without getting hurt and dealing quick damage at the same time. Meta Knight can effortlessly avoid an attack by using mach tornado, for example, overriding that attack (almost always the case with almost all attacks in the game) and harming the opponent instead.

    My main point is that Meta Knight can be used recklessly whilst dealing out damage and avoid getting hit himself, thanks to his unrealistic combination of speed, range, and priority in all of their aspects, as well as virtually infinite recovery--a combination unequaled by any other character in the game. I'm not saying that Meta Knight is easy to use and can be learned to use very quickly with little effort. A "reckless" Meta Knight still has his fast, long-ranged, and piercing moves as well as virtually infinite recovery that can allow even a careless MK user to be unpredictable that can still deal out damage at will while being protected after the move has been finished.

    I hope that's more clear. This discussion is on a roll :D
     
  7. Splash_King

    Splash_King The Scrubbiest of Hunters

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    The discussion' on a roll indeed. :thumbsup: A shame I don't have too much to say this time..

    Ahh, ok, I see what you're getting at. Meta breaks the defensive-based metagame with offense, really(..you know, no wonder he has "Meta" in his name :p). Meta indeed can be used with little prediction and effort to cause lots of damage due to his overpowered combination of stats such as his priority and range. It certainly is undeniable proof to anyone coming into this discussion that thinks Meta is equal with other characters.

    Meta is ofcourse easy to use due to these features as well, but I already(rather pointlessly)covered that in my last post. With everything said, I suppose you could sum Meta up with only a few words: difficult to punish. As you said, recklessness from the Meta player doesn't always lead to consequence, or the better term for it, being punished. A great player will always get revenge for a stupid move on Meta's part, ofcourse. :lol:
     
    #7 Splash_King, Jan 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2009
  8. Shadow*91

    Shadow*91 Not Here

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    a 'broken' character is unbeatable when used by a pro.
    meta is beatable.
    meta is not a 'broken' character.

    a simple yet effective arguement against any that say hes broken.

    now i'll admit Meta is the toughest in Smash but he's nowhere near broken
     
  9. RPGMasterTurk91

    RPGMasterTurk91 Turkish RPG Master

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    I don't agree with your "definition" of broken. There is no official "definition" of this video-game slang word. Meta Knight, to put it very simply, has the most outrageous advantages in the game making him unrealistic and uneven compared to any other character in the game. So, the way I see it, Meta Knight is broken, but still beatable. There's no such thing as "unbeatable", anyways. He is the least beatable though, and by far (besides Snake, whose weight and range is unrealistic for what he is).

    What you're saying is "this iced tea isn't sweet, it just has a lot of sugar".

    Thus, you have said nothing to invalidate my claim. Thanks for the comment!
     
    #9 RPGMasterTurk91, Jan 27, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2009
  10. Sixty

    Sixty Kryptonightingale

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    Okay.

    If I am mistaken, I think that people have the desire to win. With that in mind, people would all be Meta Knight online. What you've done is either fed idiots who didn't know about Meta Knight, or what you're saying is untrue. If wavedashing was included in this game, then obviously everyone would be doing it. It's just human instinct to go for the better character. I've noticed that there are a range of people playing different characters online, and I'm assuming that a lot of them are chosen for aesthetics. Example being, I find a lot of people playing Link because "lololol, yaeyz, hero of time. That's me." and not many playing Peach because... She's a girl and doesn't have gigantic boobs. Meta Knight doesn't seem too disgustingly ugly to play for anyone, so people would pick up on this. They haven't.

    Long paragraph for me. :/

    I don't know anything about "technical" moves in Brawl because I just play anyone with my style of fighting. Generally, I switch around characters because I can't tell there difference. Tiers don't exist to me, but that's a completely different argument. It's all to do with the skill of the player. However, a game can be easily won by noobery in Brawl because it's a lot more user friendly than Melee. I miss Melee far too much, the speed and competition were high.

    Brawl has constantly been tested, and Meta Knight was one of the earlier characters to be added. Nintendo have made the decision on whether he is a good character or not, obviously, seeing as they did include them. You're taking it way too overboard. No one would deliberately want something bad in their game (unless you're THQ or something). The professionals know what they're doing, they know how to debug a game.

    So, why don't you play Meta Knight?
     
  11. RPGMasterTurk91

    RPGMasterTurk91 Turkish RPG Master

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    What you say is true--people have the desire to win.

    But why use a character who's chances of winning with a certain amount of skill are the highest, and by far?

    Take this example: Imagine Jigglypuff, as heavy as snake. Imagine her moves were twice as fast and powerful. Imagine that his crazed mess was put into the game. With such an unrealistic combination of "stats", including one of the best recoveries in the game, this character is not suitable to use. Everyone would use this mistake if they just "wanted to win", and avoid picking all other characters if they wanted to keep those chances high. Thus, a "Jigglypuff-less" brawl would be the most fair and only be fair. Similarly, Meta Knight has a unrealistic combination of stats that make him unbalanced in every way possible. Not as much as that Jigglypuff I mentioned earlier, but both have unrealistic advantages that make them unfair compared to all other characters in the game.

    By the way, I also don't believe in "Tiers"...well, sort of. Rather, the accuracy of the tier list is not always flawless. It is true that you need to learn how to be good with each character, I've beaten a pro Snake user with Captain Falcon twice in a row (I probably got lucky, and my style of play was probably a weakness to his style of play somehow, but nonetheless I DID do it).
     
    #11 RPGMasterTurk91, Jan 27, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
  12. Sixty

    Sixty Kryptonightingale

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    You think that Nintendo can't design a character how they want. It's videogames, if they had unrealistic traits, then they can put it in their if they want. It doesn't mean that they are broken because they fulfill their criteria.

    People want to win. They will get good at that character. It's logical!
     
  13. RPGMasterTurk91

    RPGMasterTurk91 Turkish RPG Master

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    Yes, people desire to win. So why not pick that Jigglypuff all the time? That'll be easy, JP vs. JP at all tournaments, highest tournament ranking Jigglypuff. Because it would be again, a crazed mess. My main message I'm stating here is that Meta Knight is broken, unrealistic, the makers went too far and yes--they didn't realize the reality of what they did (because they are human and imperfect). I don't see wht this is so hard to understand.
     
  14. Sovieto

    Sovieto Banned

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    A character can only be broken if the majority of the people (over 50%) believe that he or she is broken. If this is the case, the character is automatically deemed “broken”.

    I stopped reading here.

    YOU FAIL (most simply put). You're just another cry baby. Thinking that if majority deems a character broken then he's broken is just outrageous. Even if 100% of the people thought he was broken, it doesn't mean he is broken. I play a variety of games and I always hear "wahh this hero is broken" but then when you go to a higher playing level everyone is like "omg lol why would you pick that garbage character"?

    I came back out of temptation, and wow, it just gets worse. Your closing statement completely contradicts your opening, the stats said 70% said he wasn't broken. Now, going off of your sage advice, if 50% think he is broken then he is, then the inverse must be true, if 50% believe he is not broken, he isn't. So unless you typed or I read something wrong, your whole essay just folded upon itself.

    Also, my second paragraph in this post was right, the higher level people don't find him broken. This just shows why they are higher level, and you're not.
     
    #14 Sovieto, Jan 30, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2009
  15. RPGMasterTurk91

    RPGMasterTurk91 Turkish RPG Master

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    Ahh Sovieto we meet again. Long time no talk!

    You didn't think when I made my point like I asked you to. It's a simple concept but if you don't think, you can make it sound like anything you want. Think it through again: Let's assume there are one million brawlers out there. Eighty percent of them (800,000) feel that Meta knight is broken. If the character was NOT broken, people would not be complaining so much about that character. But these people have a right to complain, especially when the majority of their peers feel the same way! Why do they feel the same way? Because they have seen it with their own eyes, there is nothing to hide like the media likes to do to support their own agenda. So don't go on telling me "well when the majority of the people rule over something like a law or the majority of the people dislike a certain minotirty group, it's not always right!" In Brawl, it is a matter of opinion: no bias, nothing behind the scenes, just straigtforward. As long as the numbers are past 50% (meaning the majority of the players believe so) then that character is deemed broken--it is a given in the equation.

    Here, if you're still confused you better read on:

    Let's say that 90% of all Americans believe that soldiers walking into their home for (free) food and rest is wrong after being exposed to (this is theoretical, so yes, all 100%) it (ie experienced this). Is it considered right ? Why are they complaining? Should it be stopped? Is it logical to pass a law that will forbid this from happening? What you're saying is "even if 100% of the people believe that ice is cold, it doesn't necessarily mean that the ice is cold, as it is just a matter of opinion". While it's true that the ice being cold is an opinion, it should not be treated as "irrelevant because it's just an opinion".

    You read something, made quick judgements, and "stopped reading", when in reality you are the one completely dumbfounded.

    Nope, I am not a crybaby, I have beaten many MKs because my skill level was far greater than theirs, even though Meta Knight requires little skill to master, in my opinion.

    I also gave a logical response as to why 70% (wow!) of the people who "really matter" voted against banning their OWN mistake.
     
    #15 RPGMasterTurk91, Jan 30, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
  16. Poink

    Poink lololol

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    You're correct & OP is wrong.

    The people who win IRL tournaments are people who actually treat brawl as a fighting game and PLAY2WIN. Technically Snake could always beat Metaknight (or any lightweight for that matter); he just has to be holding a grenade at ALL times so it's virtually impossible to approach. The ability to attack while shielding is probably the most broken thing in brawl period, and Snake can do that. What I'm trying to say is that if you think someone is using a 'cheap' tactic, just counter it with an equally cheap tactic. Nobody in Brawl is REALLY broken. lmao

    All the 'high/top-tier" characters have their strengths over the rest of the cast (or other specific high/top characters, which puts them up there), but Brawl is one of the most balanced games out there when you compare it to real vs. fighting games where there truly are broken tourney banned characters. Even a lot of characters that aren't considered broken in other fighting games still have 0-death combos. Be happy you're into such a casual game as Brawl where just one simple mistake won't cost you the match.

    BTW, if anyone really thinks Metaknight is broken, the smartest thing for them to do would be picking him in tournaments and beating everyone else with him, not complaining about it in the internets.

    PLAY2WIN ;x
    the 'metanoob iz brokn' thing has really gotten old.
     
  17. RockerJ

    RockerJ Still Obsessed with P4

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    Metaknight is good, but Meta is also overrated IMO
     
  18. Sovieto

    Sovieto Banned

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    Sigh, thinking that if majority rules then what they believe in is correct is beyond an ignorant mindset. Whether you're talking about a video game character or the Earth being round and revolving around the Sun, thinking that what people "believe" is correct, not what is fact and can be proven, is a horrible way to go about life, you must be Catholic.

    If he is easy to master then so be it, that makes him an easy to master character, not broken. That's probably where the difference between the higher level players and you come in place. The higher level players have mastered other characters, you, being less experienced, see MK and flip out because someone who has little experience or less than you can do good.

    And are you saying MK is the higher level player's mistake??? Because I'm sure you didn't say the poll was by the video game designers, who's mistake it could only be.

    I've been told SSBB is a far more complex game than Street Fighter 4 by many people (kekeke), so if this is true you should be able to find a counter to MK instead of wasting time posting on forums to rally opinions that accomplish nothing.

    HHAhahahah, but everyone on this forum thinks it's the most complex fighting game around!!!
     
    #18 Sovieto, Jan 30, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2009
  19. Dorkfish

    Dorkfish I'm Good at Games

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    But since the majority thinks so it MUST be true <.<
     
  20. RPGMasterTurk91

    RPGMasterTurk91 Turkish RPG Master

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    I appreciate you checking back and replying with your thought.

    Yet again you misunderstood. Perhaps its my own use of words, or your failure to accept something (where your mind has blocked any chance of accepting something as truth). The fact that you "stopped reading" then jumped to the end shows me that your arguments can only hold so much weight and that this amount is minimal.

    Firstly, I'm not Catholic--your mindset in itself is the ignorant one here for making such faulty accusations, and also generalizing a certain group of people. Shows just how valid your own statements can really be with this sort of bias behind your mindset. I'm really glad you made that quick statement--simple, yet so revealing.

    Secondly, I never stated a general rule that states "if more than 50% of the people believe something to be true, it IS true." Why? Because that's a bogus statement! I did, however, bring to light the more correct version of this statement.

    Here it is again, and I'll use a different example to keep this flowing. Let's say there are 10 million Canadians. Eighty-five percent of all of these Canadians feel that the current law that allows patrol officers to use their driveways (again, this is theoretical, so yes, they all have driveways) at will (that is they can park there even just to have a bite to eat) is unacceptable and a complete burden and that it in fact only serves to harm people instead of helping them. These people came to this conclusion through first-hand experience. What purpose will be served when someone who wants to keep the policy tries to convince these people that this law is fine and that people are just complaining because they want their driveways to themselves at all times. Would it make sense to override this law? If the people do not like it (and since it is a policy that aims to help the people and not a national security concern), does it make sense to keep the law? Or should something more be done to get rid of this nuisance? Since it is a matter of opinion by the people and has surpassed the 50% mark, they should not be subject to the law that was once said will be "accepted by the common people". This is considered A NUISANCE in this society and should be dealt with to suit the people's interests--get rid of the law. Sure, that means no more patrol officers eating doughnuts in your driveway, but you gave the 8.5 million citizens justice. Do you see how this opinion holds more weight than "This food is hot"? It deals with people and real life. Imagine if a mother told you this: "My baby boy only THINKS the water is boiling hot, that's his opinion, so I'm going to continue bathing him with this water that most babies don't feel is hot, even though my son feels it is burning". But the kid believes that the water is hot! So why continue to pour the water on him? Does it make sense? A sensible person would say absolutely not.

    Thus, in this case of SSBB where a character is deemed "unfair, unrealistic, overpowered in all aspects, etc." by the MAJORITY of the people, that character should be treated like so, because the opinion in this case matters as experience is the lead factor here, not numbers.

    Also, my passage's MAIN goal is to make a very clear point: Meta Knight is broken. I want people to realize this. He has advantages no other characters have and an unrealistic combination of "stats" that make him the least beatable and most unrealistic character--and by far.
     
    #20 RPGMasterTurk91, Feb 1, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
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