The marijuana thread.

[AndThen?]

Marijuana smokers could increase testicular cancer risk by 70%.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sciencea...is-could-cause-testicular-cancer---study.html

These people aren't really interested in the health risks.

 

[Chewy]

These people aren't really interested in the health risks.

Kinda like people against legalization aren't interested in medicinal benefits?

Pretty sure I already countered the usual health risk points but I'll do it again.

There's usually just a couple of health risks that people argue:
1. It is bad for your lungs, more carcinogens than tobacco ETC...
Counter-point: You don't have to smoke it. If it were legal it would be much easier to obtain in smokeless form. Pretty obvious if you light a substance on fire and inhale the smoke in your lungs it's gonna be bad for you.

2. It develops schizophrenia
Counter-point: I'm pretty sure that if you are susceptible to get schizophrenia from smoking it you wouldn't just get it instantly. It is something that happens fairly gradually and some of the people who get schizophrenia from it continue to smoke it after they have the disorder. And also it does not cause it, but only triggers it. Many other things could have triggered it later in those people's lives.

And then there's the study which Brawny linked to, which is just plain ridiculous. It even states in the article that the research proves nothing.

 

[Kiwi]

Anybody ever use a waterfall bong? works pretty good imo... lol.

 

[Sovieto]

I could use a blunt right about now...

 

[Chewy]

Anybody ever use a waterfall bong? works pretty good imo... lol.

Yeah, I prefer the regular gravity bongs though(where you put a jug in a tub of water) since you have more control.

Man I've had these eyeball headaches for what seems like as long as I've stopped smoking. Wonder if it's a coincidence or what.

 

[Sixty]

Kinda like people against legalization aren't interested in medicinal benefits?

Pretty sure I already countered the usual health risk points but I'll do it again.

There's usually just a couple of health risks that people argue:
1. It is bad for your lungs, more carcinogens than tobacco ETC...
Counter-point: You don't have to smoke it. If it were legal it would be much easier to obtain in smokeless form. Pretty obvious if you light a substance on fire and inhale the smoke in your lungs it's gonna be bad for you.

2. It develops schizophrenia
Counter-point: I'm pretty sure that if you are susceptible to get schizophrenia from smoking it you wouldn't just get it instantly. It is something that happens fairly gradually and some of the people who get schizophrenia from it continue to smoke it after they have the disorder. And also it does not cause it, but only triggers it. Many other things could have triggered it later in those people's lives.

And then there's the study which Brawny linked to, which is just plain ridiculous. It even states in the article that the research proves nothing.

If it's bad for your lungs and you don't have to smoke it then you should have the right to banish everyone around you using it. Lighting it up and having someone else inhale it must be bad for them too, right? I imagine that there'd be an increase in little kiddies being exposed to the stuff if it was made legal. Absolutely every smoking parent has kids who end up smoking too. It isn't a pretty chain. Second hand smoking is a nay.

Schizophrenia will also increase if the supply increases. I don't know why you would want a whole nation going crazy. If people have the mindset to try weed anyway then they're gonna be vulnerable to its effects. Oh, and I also see them weak willed, so they're most likely going to go for more. But I won't go into ways in which I think that people are weak.

That study could just be starting out. What if it actually does increase testicular cancer? I bet ages ago people were happy bunnies knowing that there wasn't any bad things to come of tobacco smoking. In fact, they thought of benefits from it. Do you want to be one of those people who will eventually be proved wrong?

 

[Chewy]

If it's bad for your lungs and you don't have to smoke it then you should have the right to banish everyone around you using it. Lighting it up and having someone else inhale it must be bad for them too, right? I imagine that there'd be an increase in little kiddies being exposed to the stuff if it was made legal. Absolutely every smoking parent has kids who end up smoking too. It isn't a pretty chain. Second hand smoking is a nay.

Make it illegal to smoke in public. Problem solved.

Absolutely every smoking parent has kids who end up smoking too? Why don't I smoke cigarettes then?

Do you know where most kids get their weed from? Dealers from school.
Guess what, those dealers don't ID. They don't care how old you are.

If it were legalized it would only be able to be obtained by presenting an ID.

It would already be expensive due to taxes so nobody is going to waste their time risking to sell to kids if they couldn't make a profit from it.

Also, you completely missed my point on the "you don't have to smoke it".
I was saying there are other ways to use the drug. Pills, treats, all kinds of things that can make it work.

People look at it too much as a party drug and too little as a medicine. It is much safer and much more effective than many medicines out there. Just about every medicine can be abused and cause much much worst health problems. No reason to pick on this one.

When I was in the hospital for a week straight vomiting blood, I would have loved to have it there since none of the other anti nausea medicine they gave me worked, except one which they were iffy about giving me so it was probably pretty bad for you, and that one only worked since it put me to sleep almost instantly. I know for a fact that Marijuana works as an anti-nausea because I have used it while I was sick and it has helped completely.

Schizophrenia will also increase if the supply increases. I don't know why you would want a whole nation going crazy. If people have the mindset to try weed anyway then they're gonna be vulnerable to its effects. Oh, and I also see them weak willed, so they're most likely going to go for more. But I won't go into ways in which I think that people are weak.

Show me some proof that it causes schizophrenia and then we'll talk some more about that.

That study could just be starting out. What if it actually does increase testicular cancer? I bet ages ago people were happy bunnies knowing that there wasn't any bad things to come of tobacco smoking. In fact, they thought of benefits from it. Do you want to be one of those people who will eventually be proved wrong?

There are much more things that are far more likely to cause cancer then Marijuana. If we just said "what if" to everything that had any studies showing that it caused any type of cancer, do you know how many things would be illegal now?

And also that was the FIRST study to show any sign of it leading to testicular cancer. And you can clearly see(if you were to have actually read the article) that it is an inaccurate study.

 

[Sixty]

Thanks for the decent reply!

Make it illegal to smoke in public. Problem solved.

In the comfort of your own home is with your children. There can be no law in place to enforce that you don't smoke around your kids, it's not like people can constantly guard your house to check. My point still stands about smoking around children. They won't care for the idiocy. If people smoke around their kids already, then there's nothing stopping them smoking weed around them too.

Absolutely every smoking parent has kids who end up smoking too? Why don't I smoke cigarettes then?

You said you have done before, I don't know what you reasons for quitting or whatever were, but the point is, people who have parents who smoke are more repulsed by it. If they start then they're TRULY just doing it to fit in, which is rather disgusting.

Do you know where most kids get their weed from? Dealers from school.
Guess what, those dealers don't ID. They don't care how old you are.

If it were legalized it would only be able to be obtained by presenting an ID.

Uhm, I'm pretty sure that most places don't check for ID. Sadly, the law does nothing in this case. It's pretty easy to pay an adult to go in for you too, you don't know how many people think they;re doing the kids a favor for that because they would have liked it.

It would already be expensive due to taxes so nobody is going to waste their time risking to sell to kids if they couldn't make a profit from it.

Taxes are nooothiiing.

Also, you completely missed my point on the "you don't have to smoke it".
I was saying there are other ways to use the drug. Pills, treats, all kinds of things that can make it work.

Well, yes, but people prefer to smoke it, I'm assuming.

People look at it too much as a party drug and too little as a medicine. It is much safer and much more effective than many medicines out there. Just about every medicine can be abused and cause much much worst health problems. No reason to pick on this one.

When I was in the hospital for a week straight vomiting blood, I would have loved to have it there since none of the other anti nausea medicine they gave me worked, except one which they were iffy about giving me so it was probably pretty bad for you, and that one only worked since it put me to sleep almost instantly. I know for a fact that Marijuana works as an anti-nausea because I have used it while I was sick and it has helped completely.

I'm not against it being used for medicinal purposes. By all means, if it helps people, then go ahead.

Show me some proof that it causes schizophrenia and then we'll talk some more about that.

AndThen can take over that for me if he wants to.

There are much more things that are far more likely to cause cancer then Marijuana. If we just said "what if" to everything that had any studies showing that it caused any type of cancer, do you know how many things would be illegal now?

And also that was the FIRST study to show any sign of it leading to testicular cancer. And you can clearly see(if you were to have actually read the article) that it is an inaccurate study.

It might be inaccurate now, but all studies had to start from somewhere. There's still research on it, you can't deny that. If they unearth something then people are going to be stupid if they smoke it. But then there are people who go against the schizophrenia argument with schizophrenia simply... doesn't exist. There isn't any hardcore evidence showing what schizophrenia is. How do you know they're not all making it up?

 

[Chewy]

In the comfort of your own home is with your children. There can be no law in place to enforce that you don't smoke around your kids, it's not like people can constantly guard your house to check. My point still stands about smoking around children. They won't care for the idiocy. If people smoke around their kids already, then there's nothing stopping them smoking weed around them too.

Well that's just irresponsible of them IMO. I believe that if someone is irresponsible enough to be smoking around children then they are probably irresponsible enough to break the law.

Uhm, I'm pretty sure that most places don't check for ID. Sadly, the law does nothing in this case. It's pretty easy to pay an adult to go in for you too, you don't know how many people think they;re doing the kids a favor for that because they would have liked it.

Where do you live? Around here they always ID. Mostly a US thing I guess.
I've just always found it easier to find weed than alcohol when I was a kid, since I didn't really know anyone over 21.

Taxes are nooothiiing.

Well the stuff would be expensive enough that kids could not afford it plus taxes, plus the charge for the person getting it for them illegally.

Well, yes, but people prefer to smoke it, I'm assuming.

People mostly smoke it because they can't get their hands on it in any other form. Whenever special brownies went around here they were gone fast, people love them.

There is also an alternative to smoking it called vaporiztion. Basically smokeless smoking. It's been said to decrease a lot of the lung related health risks since the residue is greatly decreased but I don't think any of that is "scientifically proven" yet so I won't go into that. This method would probably be best used to treat extreme nausea before going IV.

But you are probably right, those abusers who can't afford a vaporizer will continue smoking it. Mostly just because the plant itself looks so pretty and the effects are instantaneous.

I'm not against it being used for medicinal purposes. By all means, if it helps people, then go ahead.

OK, that's great to know. I find it pretty ignorant when people deny it has any medicinal purposes.

It might be inaccurate now, but all studies had to start from somewhere. There's still research on it, you can't deny that. If they unearth something then people are going to be stupid if they smoke it. But then there are people who go against the schizophrenia argument with schizophrenia simply... doesn't exist. There isn't any hardcore evidence showing what schizophrenia is. How do you know they're not all making it up?

The studies done on it are generally regarding chronic use of it, which is abusing it.


One of my main points here is that any drug can be abused. Robitussin will give you a PCP like high, Benadryl will make you braindead and give you schizophrenic like hallucinations, take too much Ibuprofin and you will kill yourself. Hell, there are even some garden flowers (and plenty of other plants) that will make you delirious and give you stronger than LSD hallucinations. The list goes on and on. And before you say "nobody does those things", these are all things I have seen people do. Some people just want to get ****ed up. And they will. I say give them a safer alternative.

Responsible use of Marijuana is basically harmless. Abuse of it, however, is only fairly harmful in comparison to the abuse of other drugs. Why pick on the drug/plant that has the least negative consequences from abuse?

On a side note: I find it pretty ironic how so many people have problems with it being used medicinally when so many children are being given speed to treat their ADD.

 

[Bodine]

I need some. NAOW

 

[AndThen?]

Show me some proof that it causes schizophrenia and then we'll talk some more about that.

http://bipolar.about.com/od/relateddisorders/a/schizo_pot.htm

Last year, Netherlands researchers reviewed five studies and concluded that the use of marijuana (cannabis) approximately doubles the risk of developing schizophrenia. Because the studies excluded anyone with a history of psychosis and controlled for the use of other drugs, they were "able to show the specific effects of cannabis."

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/blacer040615.htm

The principal active ingredient in marijuana causes transient schizophrenia-like symptoms ranging from suspiciousness and delusions to impairments in memory and attention, according to a Yale research study.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s777336.htm

...evidence suggests that in those people who are predisposed smoking cannabis can open the door to schizophrenia.

It's easy to shut your ears to that though.

 

[Chewy]

The top and the bottom ones are studies regarding the heavy use of Marijuana, which is ABUSE. Responsible casual use will not have the same results.

From the top one:

They found that heavy use of marijuana caused the type of abnormalities in certain areas of the brain as were found in the brains of the subjects with schizophrenia

Key word: HEAVY USE


The middle one states an obvious fact: everyone knows Marijuana makes you paranoid when you are on it. Here's a quote from it

Some subjects developed symptoms resembling those of schizophrenia that lasted approximately one half hour to one hour.

^Only shows that it has temporary schizophrenia like effects. Everyone knows that.

From the bottom one:

George is a heavy dope smoker, he smokes twenty to fifty cones a day. Now he’s volunteered to be in Martin’s study.

That is a ridiculously large amount of weed. I would think that someone would have some problems if they smoked that large of an amount. I could not even smoke that much if I tried.

Legalization would possibly have a slight increase on casual use. However, I highly doubt it will cause a large amount of people to start abusing it heavily.

Do not accuse me of shutting my ears to anything here when I have responded to all counter points here, whilst you have mostly just spewed out random articles on studies showing health defects.

 

[AndThen?]

The top and the bottom ones are studies regarding the heavy use of Marijuana, which is ABUSE. Responsible casual use will not have the same results.

Some would argue that doing drugs responsibly isn't possible.

Key word: HEAVY USE

That's two words.

The middle one states an obvious fact: everyone knows Marijuana makes you paranoid when you are on it. Here's a quote from it
^Only shows that it has temporary schizophrenia like effects. Everyone knows that.

Yay for giving oneself mental problems, temporary or not?

From the bottom one:

They were talking about it's effects on Mark, George wasn't schizophrenic.

Mark:

Mark is a startling example of what can go wrong. He’s now in his 30’s, but after using cannabis for just 10 months in his late teens, something started to go wrong with his brain.

"Oppressive voices, which were there 24 hours a day, seven days a week which never went away. Floorboards being syringes, stuck between floorboards injecting me with god knows what."

It was the beginning of schizophrenia, which is still with him 16 years later.

Do not accuse me of shutting my ears to anything here when I have responded to all counter points here, whilst you have mostly just spewed out random articles on studies showing health defects.

Spewed out random articles? I'm just trying to look at this objectively. You asked for proof, I figured that's the way you'd want me to go about it.

 

[Chewy]

Some would argue that doing drugs responsibly isn't possible.

Well I believe those people are wrong. It's pretty easy to avoid daily use of a nonaddictive substance.

That's two words.

/facepalm

Yay for giving oneself mental problems, temporary or not?

I don't think that temporary problems should make a drug illegal in a world where most the drugs we have out now have side-effects that are worst than the thing they are curing.

They were talking about it's effects on Mark, George wasn't schizophrenic.

Whoops, mixed up the names, read that literally right as I got out of bed.
Either way the studies are regarding heavy use which I do not support.
Yeah he only did it for 10 months, but it was at an age while his brain was developing and I'm guessing he did it pretty frequently. They don't really give much details so I can't really go into this one too much.

Spewed out random articles? I'm just trying to look at this objectively. You asked for proof, I figured that's the way you'd want me to go about it.

Well these articles were actually relevant. I was referring to before how you really hadn't responded to any points but then just kind of spit out some articles about how it's bad for your lungs.


Remember what happened when the US made alcohol illegal? People started to get together and have mob sponsored parties frequently for the sole purpose of drinking, drinking their asses off just because they can. Before binge drinking like this wasn't nearly as much of a problem. Just like now how many people get together for the sole purpose of smoking weed. I don't think keeping it illegal is doing much to help, people can still get it. It's profits are just sponsoring organized crime instead of the government now.

 

[TheOneSpam]

I could barely make it through the first page of replies before having to say something that I hope has been said in the 10+ pages preceding my reply.

IMO.
Marijuana is not a "Gateway" drug, nor would Alcohol or Cigarettes.
Stop being a ***** and accept responsability for your actions. If addicts did that, their addicion would not be harmful to others or society. Is the caffine or nicotine addiction destroying society? No. The people who CHOOSE to smoke are harming themselves. Same with FAT and LAZY people killing themselves daily.

I smoke weed daily. I have been offered nearly every nameable drug, but I know how to say know even though I'm a chronic pot head. I've also done Salvia, Zoomers and Blotter (if you don't know what they are, you don't need to). All of which I did my due dilligence in researching and finding out the facts on how it affects your biology.

I never jump into anything. I turned down cigs and weed the first times I was offered them in grade 9 at highschool. It wasn't until 4 and a half years later I decided I could try it. The revalation most people have is..
It is cheaper than booze.
It's less harmful than booze.
It's easier to get than booze.
No hangover from pot.
The ability to function while baked, but not while drunk.

Anyways, my only advice is to know what you are putting into your body. That's why I'll never do X no matter how often I'm around it, and its everywhere at the clubs.

So no 'Drug' is a gateway drug. It is up to YOU to decide what you are willing to put in your body that has posative and negative results, from food to drugs, you pay the price. How much it costs, is up to you.