against masty users.

[Splash_King]

The reason they are not allowed in wars is because it takes far less skill to use either of them and wars are a test of skill.

No shotty takes good gunmanship skill, bro. Get in close range and fire away, rapid spray (the Masty) or raw fire power do the rest. If you don't get in close, you die. Even moreso, the Masty doesn't exactly have an infinite supply of ammo (don't you dare bring heroes into this >_>). If you're sprayin' and prayin' relying on the full-auto nature of the Masterton, you'll be dead in the water and without ammo more than quick enough. Using it without skill MIGHT get you some kills, but then you're essentially ****ed. And since again, a shotty is for close range only, you were probably massacred trying to even get said kills if you're not skillful and know how to handle maps and choke points.

proxies you just throw down and they kill on their own. Where as Remotes you have to anticipate people, throw them at an exact angle to an exact place while detonating them at the right time, a much harder and more skillful gadget.

So, because there's a gadget exactly like the remotes, but better, that other one is overpowered and takes no skill? ... No, you've got it backwards. Remotes aren't as good as Proxies because they're not as practicle and therefore require more skill. If you want to play with the "lesser weapons" route, that's admirable. Don't impose that playstyle on other people, though. Might be fun for you, but it isn't a blast for everyone else, bro.

That, and if you're walking into proxies, it's your fault. :lol: If someone takes the time to cleverly place one in a choke point on a map where it isn't in sight, or to cover their back, they took the time to strategise, just as it's necessary to time remotes and use them properly. Look at the CoD community; no one's crying about Claymores being overpowered. They're a dick move sure, but hey, they're not broken.

Neither of these toys show how good a player you are or how good of a team you have. That is why they are outlawed in wars. You need hip fire, head shots, strafe, spin o ramas, to be creative, on the spot reaction. Masty you just pull the trigger and aim all over the place if you wante to and eventually you will kill atleast one person.

So yeah. You at least kill one person, and are then out of ammo/murdered while reloading. What a great strategy. :lol: With that logic, the Masty isn't even good for teams. Shottys are hardly supportive of any sort of team objective, so if your team has a Masty user, unless they're a really good player with whatever gun they choose to use, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage. :lol: And winning while at a disadvantage is a good show of skill, eh?

Now running around in a non war situation I say use what you want. However it does make the game less fun for everyone else but youself. I avoud using either masty or proxie out of respect that they are broken as hell and it is clearly not fair to anyone who doesn't have them. Now that is a decision I made, you can go about it however you want. But when the time comes when someone has to judge your game don't expect muc hcredit for being a good player.... unless you truly are without having to rely on them Broken/skilless tools.

And when people decide to use what you dislike, you rant at them? It's your choice to hate them and not use them, so as I said earlier, don't drag other people to your point of view if they don't want to voluntarily. You play how you want, other people play how they want, so chill out and don't complain 'bout it, yeah? =)

Masty it doesn't matter if you shoot someone in the head or in the foot most the time it is 1 shot kill.

Show me actual game data and statistics, not just word by mouth, pl0x. >_> I've yet to see a single sentence uttered about WHY the Masty is overpowered throughout the entire internet, in detail, with comparisons to other shottys, and exact calculations etc.

 

[MethLepard]

Well, I think yellawolf had a pretty good rant. Play against him and see how you do. He has given me some very good advice. If everyone used masty's and proxies in archives, Don't you think a level 28 would host quit? I think there are more hate threads about host quiting than anything else. It's a cool game ( has some issues) and with so many good players, it is cool to see someone who has respect for others they have played with and aren't cocky about it. Hats off Tking.

 

[Splash_King]

Well, I think yellawolf had a pretty good rant. Play against him and see how you do.

If you didn't mention TKING at the end of your post, ya would of had me confused, bro. >_>. Use our usernames, if ya don't mind?

I don't own goldeneye, bro. I'm a self-proclaimed metagame contemplation expert, and theological expert in the same "field" (... I seriously doubt I can legitimately call the study of metagame a professional field of said study :lol: ), so I butt in on rants, debates and the like after some research. If I was just spouting 100% bullshit, you wouldn't see me here. :lol: I don't enjoy making a fool out of myself, after all.

And, by the by, it's not like I dissed TKING or anythin'. I don't see how playin' 'em would relate to the rant and possibly soon-to-be-debate at hand, honestly.

Oh, and I think plenty of people would host quit if they saw everyone running the same loadout, regardless of whether it's overpowered (the Masty in question; to which I say no, it is not) or not.

 

[Egozilla]

I have to say that I agree with Riordon. You get to a certain level and you earn the right to use it. When I get into a game with my buddies and I am playing against them I tend to use the Ivana - if they aren't sing the Masterton. It's more fun mowing down Volcorona or Unknown or any of my other buds with a machine gun and a lot of fun blowing them up with proxies.

As for it taking no skill - holy crap is that wrong. When I first got that thing it overpowered me. Took a while to learn to use it right. Now, it's my gun of choice for any close quarters map or one with mixed quarters. But I tend to stick to the tight corridors and it suits my method of game play. On open maps - like the Outpost - if you use it you are going to get destroyed for the most part. So, yeah, it does take skill.

Proxies; let me just say "ditto" to what Volcorona said.

 

[riordan_85]

tking, or yela. the very first time i played against you it was in docks in a heroes match, and i was killed by your proxies repeatedly. and u used the masty as well. im not saying you do now all the time but saying you dont is not accurate. and the moderator pretty much said what i would reply.

and i pose a question. has any clan war even had where everyone used proxies and mastys?? what would happen if you had two clans all lvl 53+ using them. with all the clan wars i have seen, it seems to get set as a cap to cater to the clan that has the least experienced players.

i would like to see a RS vs SD war where everyone uses mastys and proxies only. i think it would be entertaining.

my whole point is ppl ***** and ***** when someone uses a weapon they dont agree with. thats what i find to be outrageous. i have a lot of respect for your play yela. and generally i agree with your ideaology. but in this instant i dont agree with your points.

 

[Splash_King]

and the moderator pretty much said what i would reply.

"The moderator"... hah, first time I've ever been called that. Haven't been a mod for very long. :lol: Everyone can just refer to me as CK, simple and quick.

my whole point is ppl ***** and ***** when someone uses a weapon they dont agree with.

Even if everyone has to agree to disagree on the Masty/Proxies stuff, THIS mindset is the only thing everyone needs to have a good time. =) Just enjoy the game as much as ya can, can't be put more simple than that.

I put up with all the n00btube bullshit when my friends spammed it on every ****ing MW2 class they had and every round, but still had plenty of fun in the end.

... Even if they were destroying me my first few days of playin'. ¬_¬

 

[Dok]

The Masterton and Proxies simply do not belong in the game.

 

[Splash_King]

If you have the attention span for it, read the entirety of the thread bro. :lol:

... I don't understand how I've never seen you before, even though you've been a member for months...

 

[Volcarona]

I have NEVER seen what the issue is with Proximity Mines. Ever. And for a couple good reasons too.

A) They take DAYS to earn. And I'm talking about allotted game time. To actually meet the required level can take MONTHS in real-time.

B) These things, although they don't look it, can take some skill to use correctly. They take a little time to arm, so it's not like I can toss one at someone and it'll blow up right away. As such, they can't be used offensively. Even going by the old "place 'em at key stress points" idea can be tough as long as your opponent has even the slightest amount of skill. I once fought a guy who had modded the game to get an infinite number of these per life. But instead of using them like he should, he just sat under the train in the Station and dropped a mine at every entrance. But he placed them in such obvious places it was almost impossible to fall for them (I think he only got like 8 kills. None on me, and I think half of which were from the same level 2 noob). I'd just blow them up and pump half a clip of Tar-21 (Ivana) ammunition into his face.

C) Ok, let's say I'm playing Heroes in the Memorial. I'm on the Janus team. Early into the match, some guy on the MI6 team spawns the Hero, Bond, and stays at the spawn point. For those of you who might need clarification (Here's looking at you, CK ), Bond gets 3 Proximity Mines when he spawns. Now, knowing this, would it be a good idea to rush into the spawn point guns-blazing? No, of course not. Bond's gonna have dropped Proxies all over for protection. So, rather than rushing in, I proceed with caution, shooting the mines when I see them and maybe tossing a grenade up some stairs if I can't see the floor at the top to check for more. As long as I proceed carefully, I can easily take out any defense and bring down the Hero without much trouble. In other words, it's a simple If/Then scenario. "If the Hero has 3 proxies, then I shouldn't rush in, lest I run the risk of getting blown up". Same goes for non-Heroes. "If there's a player that's level 53, then he'll probably have Proximity mines, so I should try to avoid corners as much as possible and check for a mine when I have to cross one."

It all comes down to anticipating your opponent's actions. It's something anyone who has basic skill with any game, or even people who play sports and stuff, can do (in fact, I find it odd that the ones complaining the most about Proxies are the high-levels like TKing and Dok. Aren't you guys the more skilled ones, so you guys of all people should be able to handle these much better than the noobs. Think about it.)

And as for hackers? They suck. Even if they give themselves Proxies they won't know how to use them as well as a skilled player. They'll probably die before either mine has a chance to go off.

The great Shigeru Miyamoto himself, the Producer at Nintendo, quoted at a press conference about the Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword: “Throughout the Zelda series I've always tried to make players feel like they are in a kind of miniature garden." Well, all I'm doing is making use of what's in the garden. And if you don't like that, well too bad! :wink:

 

[Splash_King]

For those of you who might need clarification (Here's looking at you, CK )

... >_>

This is the sort of descriptive, dissecting post I'm looking for, in terms of the "this is or is not broken" sort of debate. Luck for me, this ended up matching my own opinion. :lol: A grand post indeed, Vol. Didn't know you had it in ya. :lol: Brilliant Miyamoto quote, by the by.


All this goldeneye talk is making me want to fix my Wii ASAP. =/ I'm buyin' this ****in' game even if it ends up costin' me half a Wii in cash from repairs and the game itself.

 

[riordan_85]

good post vol......i got nothin lol pretty much everything has been said. its been a very interesting debate. and thank you Moderator :wink: i give ya the props. go get ur wii fixed and get goldeneye and then u can noobtoob me a few times

 

[trollface]

No one can say the Masty doesn't take skill... IMO almost all the weapons/gadgets take skill in this game. That is, you cant just pick up a Masty and expect to get a 20 streak at level 10. In fact in my experience picking up higher level weapons is just a quick way to get yourself killed, most likely in the process of picking up said weapon, which is why I hardly even bother anymore. Ive found that with each new upgrade I initially HATE each new weapon/gadget until Ive had the time to master them. Each weapon is unique, each weapon has its pros/cons.

Why is the Masty considered "broken"? Hell if I know, I have very little time with it... However, I can say that having a full auto shotty is insanity. Why? it is a one shot kill w/o the pump animation and extremely long reload animation of other shotguns. Imagine, you a newb with a Sigmus which takes an entire magazine per kill (more if bio-boost and armor) going against a 56 with a full auto, one shot kill weapon = you ground beef... Well that is if the guy is close quarters and a decent player. But like OP said at this point in the game, it shouldn't really matter which weapon you use.

Haha well for a guy who has never even played Goldeneye its not really possible to explain the Masty and Proxys. But these guys have spent a hell of a lot of time EARNING them so they have every right to use them as they wish. Hahaha equality doesn't exist in battle. Hell all the Taliban has is rusty Soviet era weapons against the US for ten freaking years.

 

[Dok]

If you have the attention span for it, read the entirety of the thread bro. :lol:

... I don't understand how I've never seen you before, even though you've been a member for months...

I have read the thread, and you don't need to resort to ad hominems because my opinion happens to be different than yours, especially since you openly claim to have not played the game. If the game designers decided to give the player a gadget, unlocked at level 56, that randomly killed 2 of your opponents, would you claim that we were just "crying" about it? The game designers can and do make mistakes. Not every game is Starcraft when it comes to balance.

It all comes down to anticipating your opponent's actions. It's something anyone who has basic skill with any game, or even people who play sports and stuff, can do (in fact, I find it odd that the ones complaining the most about Proxies are the high-levels like TKing and Dok. Aren't you guys the more skilled ones, so you guys of all people should be able to handle these much better than the noobs. Think about it.)

It's not about us being unable to deal with them, it's that no one should have to; both of these are contrary to any notion of game balance. Personally, I use neither because I consider the use of them to be unethical, especially against those who do not have them. I never thought much of the "I earned it" argument, since spending a lot of time on a game does not make it any more okay to abuse broken game elements.

 

[MethLepard]

If you didn't mention TKING at the end of your post, ya would of had me confused, bro. >_>. Use our usernames, if ya don't mind?


Sorrry man but you should play the game.

 

[riordan_85]

It's not about us being unable to deal with them, it's that no one should have to; both of these are contrary to any notion of game balance. Personally, I use neither because I consider the use of them to be unethical, especially against those who do not have them. I never thought much of the "I earned it" argument, since spending a lot of time on a game does not make it any more okay to abuse broken game elements.

lol im sorry dok, but i have to laugh at your whole arguement. so its unethical to use a weapon that is provided by the game? i posted earlier about the ivana and the strata, which i know you use. these are strong weapons as well against lower levels. your basic arguement suggests that every player should only have the vargen.

the fact you say its unethical is outright ridiculous. theres a simple explanation of this. its a reward for time scenario. the more time you put in, the better weapons you receive. i guarentee you there would not be players with 30+ days of game time if there was only **** weapons in the game, thats what makes the game fun to play for a long time. the prospect of leveling up and gaining weapons that are far superior to the ones you were using. i dont find that to be a broken element of the game. thats the whole point for online modes. otherwise we would have just regular preset loadouts. that would be a lot of fun.
so by your post dok, next time i see you in game your gonna run and gun with the stauger or sigmus and have timed mines right?? i doubt it. you will continue to use the higher grade weapons that other people deem as acceptable over 2 other weapons.
personally its a bunch of political in game bullshit that was ruined by having forums that in the beginning set up certain rules that now everyone seems to think is the GE code of conduct.

and for all you N64 players, when you played GE or Perfect Dark did u ever use the slayer?? or the farsight? im sure you did.

bottom line is this. you play your style and il play mine. im no longer affiliated with any clan so therefore i dont have to follow these ignorant rules that a few people feel they need to set for the rest of the GE community. its all crap. there are weapons that are unlockable so use em, dont give a damn what people think.