Christians

[kissoff182]

The general population detests Christians? Where on Earth do you live?

By the way, Christmas was originally a pagan holiday, so Christians have "defaced" at least one holiday too!

Exactly. If Christians want their own celebration for the birth of Jesus, they can have it. =) I think non-Christians are entitled to a day of love, happiness, and togetherness with no requirement to worship anything.

How did Christmas become what it is today, I wonder? Who is responsible?

 

[SamuS]

Dance my moral agents, dance.

 

[linkzeldagame]

Do you know that the rituals of Christianity are heavily borrowed from Paganism.

And no, the pentagram does not represent the devil. That was a form of propaganda added to the symbol by the Christian authorites when Paganism was officially eradicated by the church.

My parents and I are no Christians but we celebrate Xmas, birthdays and Easter because that's the community does. We understand why these events happen but we have no reason to follow the conventions of christianity to fully enjoy those days.

 

[trishj]

Did you even read my post all the way through? Adoption!! yah, i'm adopted, i'm sure glad that I wasn't ripped out of my mothers uterus with a forceps. I wouldn't be able to see the downfall of sony!

If those kids had such a bright future, they shouldn't be risking it by having sex.

Brawny I agree with you 100%. I'm glad your birth mom choose to give you life. To me there is only one choice LIFE!

 

[Gaz]

Did you even read my post all the way through? Adoption!! yah, i'm adopted, i'm sure glad that I wasn't ripped out of my mothers uterus with a forceps. I wouldn't be able to see the downfall of sony!

If those kids had such a bright future, they shouldn't be risking it by having sex.

did you even read mine?

Adoption is not always an option, espcially for kids with important exams coming up, they have to go through the stage of pregnacy, and study. it's not possible. i'm not saying don't give children up for adoption, but also having a baby as young as 15/16 is not good for a girl..

 

[kissoff182]

I consider myself prologic because both sides are extreme.

 

[Gaz]

Do you know that the rituals of Christianity are heavily borrowed from Paganism.

And no, the pentagram does not represent the devil. That was a form of propaganda added to the symbol by the Christian authorites when Paganism was officially eradicated by the church.

My parents and I are no Christians but we celebrate Xmas, birthdays and Easter because that's the community does. We understand why these events happen but we have no reason to follow the conventions of christianity to fully enjoy those days.

hear hear, Christmas now to most people has no relgions meaning, it's all about MONEY!!!

 

[Mallhew]

I have been having an argument about Christianity with someone on this forum (who, I'll assume until pleaded otherwise wants their name left out.)

I think it's relevant enough to post here:
--

They said:
about what you said...

What about the little babies who never have time to accept a Jew as their Saviour from some unknown deity who promises to make us burn for all eternity?

All that Jesus would be saving us from would be what God created...that little rascal Satan, who challenged God. God decided, "to hell with it," and did just that. SO who's fault is it, really, that we're all going to Hell for not accepting Jesus Christ? It's not my fault; after all, I was programmed by God and placed in an environment by Him that would inherently make me not believe in Him.

i thought the same thing when i first became Christian, but then realized that it is our fault we go to hell, every time we sin its our fault, so i told myself that every time i sin i deserve to go to hell, but god fogives you no matter what, even murder, and you have a chance to go to heaven when you accept Jesus that he died for our sins. I dont realy care if you dont listen to me, i just wanted to point that out. And when you said god put you in a sinning enviorment that is true but like i said before "Who made it a sinning enviorment in the first place?" and not all places want to make not believe in god like church, everyone there encourages you, to keep your faith up. But when the rapture happens and millions of disappearances happen (which is actualy Soon) people will start to make you believe that god doesnt exist, like followers of the anti christ. Thats all im saying and like i said before you dont have to aggree with me i just wanted to point this out.

I said:
I'll be sitting in church with murderers, you say?

You know what, I'd much rather be friends with that Atheist surgeon over there, saving lives.

Hey, I guess I'm crazy. Let me rephrase that last question: who designed us so we'd be motivated to sin? If you answer "Satan," I'll extend the question: Who's fault is it that Satan was created in the first place?

They said:
first off i just want you to know i dont want to make anyone mad i just want to convience them,

1)Its obviously possible that you could be sitting in church with a murderer but it unlikely to happen and wheat i meant was god will forgive you no matter what you did so if you murdered and you asked for gods forgivness he would forgive you.

2) If really mean that you basicly saying "I would rather be friends with som1 who saves human bodies (the athiest surgeon) then som1 who saves life itself or souls to go to heaven, because when you die your body dies and if a surgeon saved you he would save your body (actualy its god who allowed the surgeon to save you) but if you die only your body dies but the real you goes to heaven or when both the soul and body dies then you go to hell, so when you accept jesus he just saved your life because you dont have life in hell.

3) Yes god did know that sin would happen, but he still created us with our own choices in life so we were the ones who chose to have this life, and if you say "no adam and eve were the ones who did it" no because every day you choose to make life even worse when you sin, so when you say god created satan knowing what he would do but he loved us and gave even satan the ability to choose what you do, so whn satan temps you (or a demon) to sin sin, they dont choose for you YOU CHOOSE FOR YOU, in other words no matter how much temtation comes in your mind you have the final say if your about to sin or not, so demons done make you sin they may tempt you but they dont make you sin, you make you sin. Basicly what man does when they sin is choose a bad life over a good life. and god didnt make us to be tempted he made us to have a good life and if you get tempted into sin your choosing a bad life.

I said:
"Bad life?" Please. I get to sleep in on Sundays.

Let me tell you a story. A pedophile, who had been convicted of molesting children, sat in prison. During a physical, the doctors discovered a tumor in his brain.

When they removed the growth, his pedophilic tendencies disappeared. When is started growing again, the man slowly lusted for children again. When they removed it, take a guess. His pedophilia disappeared.

Point of the story? Either God or Satan placed the tumor in his brain, which it is quite clear was responsible for his crimes (and, if you will, sins.) If it was Satan, well, God created Satan to be exactly what he is, because he is all-powerful. So, Satan is a puppet in this respect. So, who's fault is it that this man molested children? He had no control over it.

And if you think this is a specialized case, think again. Myriad studies have identified a direct correlation between certain genes and a tendency to lash out at others, for instance. Who placed those Genes in those people's bodies? That's right. Your precious God.

They said:
your third statment makes no sense because when god told adam and eve that they would die if they ate from the tree but when they ate from the tree they didnt die as we think, but god meant death not from the body but from the soul, (sin also kills the body but slowly anthats why we dont live for 1000 years anymore like adam and eve did) so sin causes the soul to die and be overcome with it. And satan didnt do anything to that man sin did, satan can be in only one place at one time, but he does have demons, and they do his dirty work for him,so you dont know if satan did anything, in this case it was sin what did this, because like i said before sin causes the soul and the body to die, it has many ways of making death to the body like disease, wound, virus, and even some mental things. The man in this case will always have a choice and yes he made that choice to molest those children, nothing or no one forced him to do it, your saying that the virus actualy moved his armes and legs for him and he just watched. What happened to him was of HIS CHOICE no one elses, or nothing elses BUT HIS. God was gracful when he created man so he gave man a choice. Lets say there was a boy and a girl that were bf gf, the gf wanted to barrow some money to go buy beer, so she asked her bf for some money and she knew that the bf wouldnt let her barrow money if he knew she was going to be buying beer, so she lied and said that she was going to go see a movie with her friends, but the bf knew she was lieing and that she realy was guna go buy beer, but he gave her the money anyway because he wanted her to think of what she did after he told her that he knew, and sure enough the GF felt realy bad because the BF told the GF that he knew that she realy bought beer even before he handed her the money, wouldn't you? God didnt want man to feel bad but it was there fault in the first place, that it happened. anyway back to your story, im thinking god allowed the tumor to be removed for a reason, maeby the man started to think that what he did was wrong but he still didnt ask for forgivness so the tumor came back and god gave him a second chance of thinking in a better way than what he was doing, and i dont know what happened to him after that because im on rephrasing what you told me so far. And if you think sleeping in is waaaay better than goin to church on sunday your basicly saying i would rather sleep in and go to hell then wake up at 10:30am and save my soul to get a better bed in heaven. Doesnt make any sense right?

I said:
So, you believe that babies are born with AIDs because they sinned before they ever left the womb?

If that is what you believe, then I have nothing else to say to you, in your ridiculousness.

If that isn't what you believe, then how do you plan on convincing me that any other form of disease is anyone's fault beyond not washing their hands?

God doesn't exist, in my very well-reasoned opinion. So, there's no reason to go worship a non-existent God. It might be fun, but I do find sleeping in a lot more so.

They said:
babies are born into sin they never sinned inside the womb because thats imposible and thats not what i said, i meant that because man sined we are all dieing.

and yes you second statment it what i parsialy believe, because if you smoke your ruining your body therefore you can get lung cancer or other stuff, smoking is a sin because it degrades the body god made for you. And i dont sleep in on sundays because i go to church to learn how to teach other people about him and to save them, when the rapture happens id hate to see people suffer which might lead to suicide and going to hell, i realy dont want people to go to hell. Theres a story in the bible that Jesus tells the decibels. It goes like this, there was a man who was evil and sinned and never asked for forgivness, he had brothers who also sinned and never asked for forgivness, when the man died he went to hell, his suffering made him think that there realy was a god and a hell, so he wanted to warn his brothers of their fate and asked the angel guarding the gates if he could do so. The angel would not allow him to pass because even if he did go back up and warn his brothers, they STILL wouldn't believe him. And if you say god doesnt exist then why do christians actualy do these amazing things, and why do murderers who become christian all of a sudden become godly men (godly as in religeous or very nice)?
If you think god doesn't exist then do you think that everything that ever happened just happened?!?! No thats impossible because only god gives life, so evolution is wrong, the earth is really not 500 million years old. And if you still think that god doesnt exist then do you think the bible was just MADE UP?!?! Do you think som1 just sat at there desk writing up some old story to fool people for the fun of it? No if that were true no one would believe it. I would hate to see
anyone suffer in hell or during the tribulation force. And guess what the rapture is going to happen soon, because in the beginning of the book of revolation one of john's predictions have come true already, he predicted that a group of prophets that will soon follow the antichrist will go around and lead people out of christianity and guess what a group of prophets in Israel are going around and prosecuting christians, this is the stage before the rapture happens. You know what the rapture is right?

I said:
You want to know your sins?

You're stupid for not believing in evolution. (Sure, it's a theory, but so is gravity. Both are theories supported by data collected in the field and lab. )

You're incorrect in citing my belief that the world is 500,000,000 years old. (I believe it's 4,000,000,000 years old, like other people who respect natural laws and carbon-dating to tell us what happened over what period of time.)

You're cruel to my eyes for not using breaks in your righting (new paragraph, enter key, etc.)

You're naive for thinking there would be no other reason to write the Bible unless if you were God. Wouldn't you listen to somebody if they told you that if you didn't listen to them, you would be tortured for all eternity? I think so: obviously, you are now.

You're arrogant for thinking I'm unknowledgeable of your pitiful beliefs. You think i don't know what your homophobic, infanticidal, sexist God says? Think again:

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.

DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.

MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.

LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.

MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.

DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.

PSALM: 137:9
Happy shall be he, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

I can find some more for you, if you want.

They said:
First off yes i am a sinner but what you pointed out were not sins the only laws in the Old testiment that christians today should listen too are the ten comandments, those laws you exclaimed were laws thats god gave the Jews to live off of, like theres one verse in the old testiment that told the Isrealits where to go to the bathroom during war, and you should look at this website... http://www.thebricktestament.com/
there are sooo many laws that they had too folow in the old testiment that we would think we would never do today and that website makes a good point of it too, but some of the verses in there dont really exist in the bible.Those laws were made too tell the jews that they are sinful. Like if one man told the other man that he could not lift 500 pounds the other man would try anyway but fail. God was telling them that they were wrong. Today we live under grace not law. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6-14 to live under the law is by doing everything the goverment says even if its bad, if the goverment has laws that reflect off of the 10 commandments then listen too them, for breaking them would also be sinning, but if the goverment has laws that say you have to murder, then dont listen do the goverment even if it leads to persecution. You either live under grace or under the law not both. We have been given grace through Jesus so we dont listen to those laws anymore.

Second I dont believe in evolution because I'm a Christian, and Christians believe God made the earth and all living things so what makes you think id believe in evolution? Same thing with the 5 million year old thing, i never said thats what you believe i just said thats what evolution teaches.

Third I never said that the only reason to make the bible is because im god. Im saying that if you dont believe in god you dont believe what the bible teaches. Like the bible says who wrote it and when those people wrote it god was speaking to them telling them what to write. But if you dont believe that you must believe that some very smart people just sat at there desk making up sooo many verses, without making one mistake, too fool everyone who believes in what it will say. Just think, if someone wrote the bible and started handing them out to people saying what written in there is true, people wouldn't believe him or her knowing that he wrote it, they would take it just as serious as a normal story time book.

And Forth: again I never said you didnt know about the bible i was referencing on things trying to brighten up my explanation here. And i wanna know, if you dont believe in god then why do you read the bible? Thats just out of my curiosity. Make sure you check out that website i gave you, its really funny.

I said:
It was not in your best interest in this argument to point out that some parts of the Bible were only relevant for a period of a hundred years or less (for example, a time of war). This would imply that the Bible is more of a story book than anything else.

I don't read the Bible. I was using those texts from the Bible to show you that modern understanding of what is right and wrong updates itself, while an ancient text does not.

In the story of Joshua commanding the sun to stop moving, this is a direct contradiction to modern science. If you believe the earth is a sphere that rotates around the sun, then if the earth stopped rotating, it would have collapsed upon itself.

Has this happened? I think not. So, if you are to believe the Bible, it is the sun that rotates around the Earth, not the other way around.

Most Christians today will admit that the earth rotates around the sun, which therefore means admitting one of the Bible's stories is bullshit. I expect the same to happen with evolution, as it has happened with woman's rights. Slowly, bit by bit, your faulty fortress that is your and others' faith is crumbling, and eventually will collapse under the burden of having to explain too many lies.

It may be comforting to fall into the comforting arms of religion and listen to her lies. But in the end, that's what you get, lies.

--

I haven't gotten a response back yet; I'll post it when I do.

 

[Monsteroids]

My problem is that I feel that they are only trying to help themselves out by helping you out so they can go to heaven. I'm sure theres barely any Christians like this but I guess I had the stroke of bad luck by meeting plenty of them. I gave up on Christianity and other religions. I find Heaven and Hell and God were made up by an unsatisfied person. This person would have been unsatisfied not knowing the meaning of life or why they were living it. Its my ow opinion and I'm not gonna shove it down your throats. Religions make people happy so I don't care what they believe in until it crosses my life path in a bad way. History turned me off religion as well, it seems more people got hurt than there were that were happy. This opinion follows my experiences and I know that I will probably get bashed for ignorance. This isn't a good forum for this kind of stuff though. I highly respect your point kissoff182 but lets have more Nintendo talk!

 

[trishj]

did you even read mine?

Adoption is not always an option, espcially for kids with important exams coming up, they have to go through the stage of pregnacy, and study. it's not possible. i'm not saying don't give children up for adoption, but also having a baby as young as 15/16 is not good for a girl..

Niether is a 15 or 16 year old having sex. The choice is to not have sex and focus on making something of yourself.

 

[Gaz]

Niether is a 15 or 16 year old having sex. The choice is to not have sex and focus on making something of yourself.

The choice is not always there for some people, not everyone is a good too-shoes (not saying you are) but you can't comment on someone's life and the bad choices they may have made when you havn't lived it.

 

[kissoff182]

The choice is not always there for some people, not everyone is a good too-shoes (not saying you are) but you can't comment on someone's life and the bad choices they may have made when you havn't lived it.

I agree with trishj in terms of: if a 15-year-old is having sex, holy ****, not good.

But look at it this way: do you really want this girl who put herself in the position of being able to get pregnant to have a child and pass on the same values that got the girl pregnant at 15? You may think the child would learn from the parent's mistake, but I've witnessed that that doesn't always happen.

You may say, trishj, that adoption is always an option, but there are actually a lot of kids in foster homes who have not been adopted. Babies have been found in dumpsters.



...That being said, Prop 85 should have passed in California. WTF.

 

[NateTheGreat]

@Mallhew

Nice debate. Be nice to have a link to it. But really, you're sort of wasting your time, or a more accurate way to say it, they're wasting your time. Christians generally aren't interested in logic, but rather, well, Christianity, which is a religion, which you put faith into because there is no real proof that any of what is written in any religious books, including the bible, is true. Also, perhaps some don't want to admit it, but aethism is sort of a religion too because it is just a set of beliefs. Where christianity says there is heaven-hell after death, atheism says there is nothingness. Christianity/religion in general cannot exist without something like aethism/freethinking and vice versa, yet neither side, certainly not the religious side anyway, would admit this.

Also, it kills me that almost every time a believer in the bible tries to prove their point, they basically the same old tired scare/guilt tactics that have been used for centuries. Jesus died for our sins, the rapture is coming soon, those who aren't saved go to hell to burn for eternity. How negative. Sometimes I think christians are what they are not because they have faith in their god but rather they have real fear of what will happen if they don't believe. That's one of the basic staples of western religion: use fear to keep people in their respective socioeconomic places. Convince the poor and uneducated that they were meant to be poor and uneducated. Convince women (who at the time of the writing of the Bible) to obey their husbands no matter the cost.

Have to say, another qualm I have about Christians in general is their inability to give credit where it's really due. They always thank god when their family members are rescued in fires, healed by doctors/medicine and it just seems kind of rude. Clap for the firefighter, the doctor. God know you love him by now, doesn't he? You go to his little houses of worship and try to save people (whether they want to or not), and you vote republican without a second thought on every election. God's probably sick of hearing is own name by now, don't you think?

I know this is sacrilegious to say, and let me repeat I don't mind religion, it's interesting, it's just not my thing and I'm trying to be less and less cynical as time goes by, but sometimes I feel like saying I can't wait 'til this rapture happens...it will get all these Christians out of here.:devil:

 

[w3sl3y!]

i think this is a pointless thread

 

[Skippy]

but sometimes I feel like saying I can't wait 'til this rapture happens...it will get all these Christians out of here.:devil:

The Bible has a different viewpoint as to who will be "left behind"

Psalm 37:29
the righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it forever.

Proverbs 2:21
For the upright will live in the land, and the blameless will remain in it;

Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Psalm 37:9-11
For evil men will be cut off, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land. A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy great peace.

Psalm 37:34
Wait for the LORD and keep his way. He will exalt you to inherit the land; when the wicked are cut off, you will see it.