Final nail in Sony's coffin = Walmart

[Shiftfallout]

quick question, i've been wandering this for some time, how superior is blue ray to hd dvd, i mean if it's more expensive and just a tad bit better, i don't really see the point, hd dvd is a lot better than regular dvds and i find it absoloutly amazing quality, i just find it hard to believe that something's better than it(i know it is, you don't have to say that).....but how much better?

Bluray can hold up to 50 gigabytes of space due to the ultra-violet laser in the players itself. This basically allows for precise data extraction from a disk, thus allowing for more data to be placed on any one disk.

When games and movies are transfered onto things like dvds, and cds... they are compressed. That compression means losing quality. The more you compress the less space it takes up. Thus, by having a ton more space per disk, the quality of the sound, textures, video...ect and other such space heavy features, can be higher quality.

HD-DVD to Bluray is like comparing a CD to a first generation DVD. There is a big difference between them in size.

The problem i find with a lot of companies out there, is that they have the technology and ability to give consumers the latest and the greatest, but often times they do not. They like to bleed it out over time, allowing for increased revenue. Sony kind of takes the opposite approach, they throw it out there once its ready and take the hit of high production cost. Aka PS3 (thus its high price tag).

Anyways, Bluray is a highly superior format, but the only reason you see people hating on it is because they associate it with Sony, and for some odd reason, illogical in nature, they hate Sony. Probably just the bandwagon effect.

 

[Skippy]

Bluray can hold up to 50 gigabytes of space due to the ultra-violet laser in the players itself. This basically allows for precise data extraction from a disk, thus allowing for more data to be placed on any one disk.

When games and movies are transfered onto things like dvds, and cds... they are compressed. That compression means losing quality. The more you compress the less space it takes up. Thus, by having a ton more space per disk, the quality of the sound, textures, video...ect and other such space heavy features, can be higher quality.

HD-DVD to Bluray is like comparing a CD to a first generation DVD. There is a big difference between them in size.

I think maybe you're confusing regular DVD with HD-DVD?
HD-DVD uses the same blue-violet laser as Blu-Ray. Although HD-DVD does max out at 30GB compared to Blu-Ray's 50GB. However that's still plenty of space for a full high-def movie using identical compression with Blu-Ray.
Using the same compression levels. HD-DVD can hold over 5 hours compared to Blu-Ray's 8 hours.

Anyways, Bluray is a highly superior format,

Highly superior? Again, the only real difference is the total storage space available, and that difference in space has not impacted any movies.

 

[[DT]]

When games and movies are transfered onto things like dvds, and cds... they are compressed. That compression means losing quality. The more you compress the less space it takes up. Thus, by having a ton more space per disk, the quality of the sound, textures, video...ect and other such space heavy features, can be higher quality.

Except if they're both mastered using the same CODEC like VC1, the resulting video data is *the same*. The additional datastream bandwidth isn't required for the current highest resolution specification TV (1080P).

Take two master sources, process them with the same standardized CODEC, the resulting video playback will be identical.

The extra space *can* be used for more audio information (like having full DD and DTS and TrueHD lossless) or for additional content, though thus far, few BD's have capitalized on it.

HD-DVD to Bluray is like comparing a CD to a first generation DVD. There is a big difference between them in size.

Not hardly - BD is 1.6 times bigger than HD-D, SD-DVD (single layer) is 6.9 times larger than a CD.

I'm assuming you know TL51 is has been passed and is in compatibility testing (and all G1 BD players should be able to support this with a firmware flash via Ethernet or CD). Most people don't even see the need, but it's on deck.

I agree that out of the box, BD is slightly better technically, though if it runs into cost and exclusive content issues, it's all sort of a wash.

[edit]
Sorry, I realized I duplicated a number of Skippy's points after I posted.

 

[Shiftfallout]

I think maybe you're confusing regular DVD with HD-DVD?
HD-DVD uses the same blue-violet laser as Blu-Ray. Although HD-DVD does max out at 30GB compared to Blu-Ray's 50GB. However that's still plenty of space for a full high-def movie using identical compression with Blu-Ray.
Using the same compression levels. HD-DVD can hold over 5 hours compared to Blu-Ray's 8 hours.

Nope not confusing them at all. It just seems some are in the dark concerning bluray. I was talking solely about bluray when bringing up the laser type. Just because I did not add "HD-dvd also uses this type of laser" after talking about bluray does not mean i was confused at all.

In fact if you must know, the actual optics of the lasers differ between the two in relation to the disk. The reason bluray is slightly more expensive is due to the nature of the disk itself, which also makes full use of the ultra-violet laser.

Highly superior? Again, the only real difference is the total storage space available, and that difference in space has not impacted any movies.

Yes highly superior. You have to look at the bigger picture. These "disks" are multimedia storage mediums. From just a movie stand point, it might not seem like such a huge difference, but fortunately, these disks are not made just purely for movies.

The more storage space available means a lot more in the bigger picture. We are talking about storage of data here, because at its core that is the job of the disks.

Like dvds, these disks will be used from storing data on a computer, to filing and saving, games, videos, music, software and more. In the days of the VHS, those cassettes had really one purpose. But with how we use laser disks... well they need to be able to work best for everything they will be used for.

On the film front, the experimentation with digital film and cameras is leading into more and more of a data storage capturing process. Film becomes obsolutete on these cameras, but hard drive and disk space is key.

Thus yes, the bluray is highly superior.

Now add to the fact that bluray disks have security features like ROM-watermarking technology as well as dynamic encryption, its already a step ahead on that front.

Also the maximum projected storage for bluray is 200 gb of disk space, where as HD-dvd would be capped at 60gb.

Finally, bluray has more international company backing and support.

Sadly, it looks like disks are going the way of consoles. You will need more than one player or disk to enjoy what each side has to offer.

 

[lloyd_yayo]

im convienced that if sony can keep the psp alive after all this time of being STOMPED by the DS.....sony can make the PS3 last. so i say forget about blu-ray vs hd-dvd, forget sony vs microsoft, forget that they losing money on each console, forget everything... they'll make it work somehow, im convinced. i hate the psp btw but own a ps3 after i despised and talked down the ps3 for months. (got wii too)

 

[Shiftfallout]

im convienced that if sony can keep the psp alive after all this time of being STOMPED by the DS.....sony can make the PS3 last. so i say forget about blu-ray vs hd-dvd, forget sony vs microsoft, forget that they losing money on each console, forget everything... they'll make it work somehow, im convinced. i hate the psp btw but own a ps3 after i despised and talked down the ps3 for months. (got wii too)

the psp is great! It really shines when you realize how to use all its potential... and its also like a portable PSX player as well. Who doesnt love playing all the best PS FF games on the go...

 

[sagema]

None of them are using the real capacity of Blue Ray and HD DVD. Both can hold higher amounts of data. Both can hold drastically higher amounts. So can regular DVD. We only see Hollywood use a portion of it for their movies, where games use a much larger chunk. I want a future where they can pack 3-5 movies on a single format(guess what they can do that now). The average consumer will make use of these new formats the same way they do with the I-pod by packing tons of music on it. It will happen, and if Toshiba and Sony ignore this, shame on them. Their answer so far has been 2-20 hour director commentary. Serious yawnfest.

 

[llol_slim]

None of them are using the real capacity of Blue Ray and HD DVD. Both can hold higher amounts of data. Both can hold drastically higher amounts. So can regular DVD. We only see Hollywood use a portion of it for their movies, where games use a much larger chunk. I want a future where they can pack 3-5 movies on a single format(guess what they can do that now). The average consumer will make use of these new formats the same way they do with the I-pod by packing tons of music on it. It will happen, and if Toshiba and Sony ignore this, shame on them. Their answer so far has been 2-20 hour director commentary. Serious yawnfest.

interesting about packing films onto one disc.
I'm going on holiday, and thought it would be so helpful if i could rip a load of my films, make them smaller, pack them all onto one dvd (complete with menus to choose the film I want to watch) and then be able to put it in the dvd player in my room. Obviously I would loose a little quality.
The only way i can think of doing this is with DivX, but I'm yet to find an easy piece of software that can do this very well.

 

[[DT]]

We'll see how MS factors into all this - their silence on this recent big HD-D push is by design (ex: dropping the price of the HD drive would conflict with the current Toshiba/WM/Warner agendas).

The consumer base both camps need/want to target is the existing DVD market - these aren't PS3 buyers, or 360 HD addons buyers - these are the price conscious, mass market folks (i.e., Joe Six Pack). That's why things like price point and brand recognition are crucial.

I know Sony doesn't want to get into a hemorrhaging contest with MS, the latter could bleed them dry given each company's debt (or lack of), market cap and cash.

I do hate having to buy another player, or a more expensive (DF) player, or potentially a PS3 just to have the BD exclusives, but I just bought a HD player to do the same for HD exclusives so go figure.

On a PS3 related note (since this IS the PS3 area): since we're a big fan of survival horror type games, if RE and SH were to come out on the PS3 (which I think it's unlikely that they won't), that would probably solve our BD player issue too! (even though the next gen dual format players are superior).

My self imposed videogame price point is $300 (not a financial factor, just a psychological barrier), but I'm sure we'll see $300 PS3's at some point in the near future.


~DT

 

[sagema]

They already made a player that can play HD and Blue Ray. It costs a lot more. I really hope the two formats stay so we can keep out the monopoly. We all lose if one wins over the other, and we get permanently stuck with just one type. It shouldn't be an issue since there will eventually be cheap players that can play both formats in the future.

 

[[DT]]

They already made a player that can play HD and Blue Ray. It costs a lot more. I really hope the two formats stay so we can keep out the monopoly. We all lose if one wins over the other, and we get permanently stuck with just one type. It shouldn't be an issue since there will eventually be cheap players that can play both formats in the future.

Yeah, I know Samsung and LG (BH-100) have have dual format players out for a few, but most of them were so-so implementations of both formats for most than buying one of each. I've had on advance order a player that's a full implementation of both standards (Profile 1.1, full HDi, TrueHD, killer Reon upscalar, etc.) that's targetted at ~$700 (that I might still bail on).

LG has a nice dual format internal drive for ~$300 street price (they have a matching R-HD/BD and W-BD internal, I think in the $800 range).

Of course even at $300 you still need a pretty stout HTPC for decent decoding (plus all the supplemental PC gear) - it's more flexible than the other solutions, but more costly (and potentially more of a PITA - I kind of like: press on, open, insert disk, press play, enjoy).

I have/had a nice HTPC, though it needs some upgrades - we switched from TW cable to DTV (must have NFL Sunday Ticket/Superfan ) and there's not a DTV-card so I lost my freebie DVR solution (to be honest the current state of programming no longer necessitates a DVR...) and get one of those drives instead (?)

I may pull it back out, get a new MB/videocard (it's got like 500GB of storage just sitting in a closet) - has a really killer Silverstone case with a VFD, etc.

OK, I my train of thought totally derailed...

:lol:

 

[Darkenmal]

yay sony is dead! Rejoice!

 

[SensesFail]

yay sony is dead! Rejoice!

**** you sony will never die :lol: