WiiChat's Smash4 Group Roster!

[Ninja1]

I agree...plus we also don't know the exact amount of characters the makers are going for

 

[Splash_King]

The veteran Pokes we already have; Jiggles 'n Pika; are stayin'. That's obvious and incontestable. Red and Lucario, however, there's no definite chance either way. My take on Red is that they definitely won't give 'em the ban hammer. He's the original iconic protagonist. Despite DP coming out right before Brawl, Red still got in over Lucas and Dawn/their manga counterparts or anyone else from Gen 4. Furthermore, despite bein' one character he has three 'mons. Givin' him the axe means three characters dropped. Sakurai won't do that I don't think. Let's not forget Red is the only human representin' the Pokemon series. His odds of returnin' are very good IMO.

Lucario's however, I'm not as positive of... but nor am I negative. Lucario is a vastly popular 'mon in both the Pokecommunity and Smash community who wholly represents Generation 4. Mewtwo was the same way for Generation 1 back in Melee and look what happened when he got removed, people right-flipped the **** out over it. Lucario is definitely the most likely candidate t' be removed, but I don't think it'l happen as it'd be both a very unpopular decision, and one I don't think Sakurai would likely make anyways. He's received nothin' but flack from removin' even clones... do ya really think he's gonna remove a unique fighter?

Lastly, Pokemon definitely won't receive more than one 'mon. If Smash 4 came out this year, it'd probably be Zoroark... but as MR said, we're one Generation late. Smash 4 ain't comin' out 'til long after XY's release. Furthermore, Zoroark's popularity isn't on Lucario's level despite bein' representative of Gen 5 and gettin' it's own movie... a movie which is now old in the face'a other Pokemovies released over the past few years. Zoroark isn't gettin' in, period. There's almost no chance it'l happen.

As for Mewtwo, it's hard t' say. It all depends on Sakurai's decision in regards to the Pokenewcomer: return Mewtwo as the fans want, or add in the Gen 6 representative which hasn't been revealed yet... Mewtwo is, without a doubt, the most popular Poke in Smash. No, Pikachu really ain't. The electric mouse is iconic, but remember that popularity in the Smash community is moar important than popularity amongst people who still play the Pocket Monsters. People who don't care for modern 'mons anymore still oft have some nostalgia for Mewtwo. Whether it'l get in as it's new form or said new form will be it's final smash, I don't know. But Mewtwo's chances of returning are pretty much guaranteed if Sakurai decides t' not take a Gen 6 Poke.

I'm relatively confident with my following vote.

Derpachu
Jiggles
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Mewtwo

'Course, the latter two certainly can't be predicted with the utmost certainty, but I'd still be willin' to bet on it.

 

[HeyLolita]

Sometimes man, you all are crazy. Literally, we we're going to have:

Pika, Jiggs, Char, Squirt, Ivy, Cario, and Mew2 in Brawl at one point. It's not that big of a stretch to simply do that again.

And SPLASH I'll read what you have to say in a second and respond ~

Also you butts, Nintendo said via twitter yesterday that 3D Mario, Smash, and Mario Kart are going to be discussed in a Nintendo Direct PRIOR to E3, so keep up to date with that bizz.

 

[HeyLolita]

The veteran Pokes we already have; Jiggles 'n Pika; are stayin'. That's obvious and incontestable. Red and Lucario, however, there's no definite chance either way. My take on Red is that they definitely won't give 'em the ban hammer. He's the original iconic protagonist. Despite DP coming out right before Brawl, Red still got in over Lucas and Dawn/their manga counterparts or anyone else from Gen 4. Furthermore, despite bein' one character he has three 'mons. Givin' him the axe means three characters dropped. Sakurai won't do that I don't think. Let's not forget Red is the only human representin' the Pokemon series. His odds of returnin' are very good IMO.

Agreed, but let's not forget this tidbit about who Red was ORIGINALLY going to be:

He thought about having a trainer summon the second generation starters, but there wasn't time/resources for such a labor-intensive character.

This was back during Melee's planning, mind you.

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/new-smash-bros-for-wiiu.304894/page-2675#post-14462546

Lucario's however, I'm not as positive of... but nor am I negative. Lucario is a vastly popular 'mon in both the Pokecommunity and Smash community who wholly represents Generation 4. Mewtwo was the same way for Generation 1 back in Melee and look what happened when he got removed, people right-flipped the **** out over it. Lucario is definitely the most likely candidate t' be removed, but I don't think it'l happen as it'd be both a very unpopular decision, and one I don't think Sakurai would likely make anyways. He's received nothin' but flack from removin' even clones... do ya really think he's gonna remove a unique fighter?

I agree, to an extent. Sakurai DOESN'T WANT TO LOSE ANY CHARACTERS, he's stated "I love all my characters", referring to even Pichu and Young Link. He loves his creations, and I don't think he wants to take out any. With that being said, sometimes due to time constraints you have to. IF that were to happen, I think Lucario (Despite his Popularity) could suffer the same fate that the even more popular Mewtwo suffered in Brawl. Which was being cut due to time constraints/last minute additions.

That being said, Sakurai has a pretty massive team right meow, and I don't think he's going to suffer from time constraints this time.

Lastly, Pokemon definitely won't receive more than one 'mon. If Smash 4 came out this year, it'd probably be Zoroark... but as MR said, we're one Generation late. Smash 4 ain't comin' out 'til long after XY's release. Furthermore, Zoroark's popularity isn't on Lucario's level despite bein' representative of Gen 5 and gettin' it's own movie... a movie which is now old in the face'a other Pokemovies released over the past few years. Zoroark isn't gettin' in, period. There's almost no chance it'l happen.

Realize that this game has been in development for a while now, and Sakurai ALWAYS plans his rosters out before even starting to make the game. So, there is a chance that this roster has been planned since last year, when even I would have bet Zoroark will be in Smash 4. He could get in on this fluke. Still, I don't see im being all too likely now.

As for Mewtwo, it's hard t' say. It all depends on Sakurai's decision in regards to the Pokenewcomer: return Mewtwo as the fans want, or add in the Gen 6 representative which hasn't been revealed yet... Mewtwo is, without a doubt, the most popular Poke in Smash. No, Pikachu really ain't. The electric mouse is iconic, but remember that popularity in the Smash community is moar important than popularity amongst people who still play the Pocket Monsters. People who don't care for modern 'mons anymore still oft have some nostalgia for Mewtwo. Whether it'l get in as it's new form or said new form will be it's final smash, I don't know. But Mewtwo's chances of returning are pretty much guaranteed if Sakurai decides t' not take a Gen 6 Poke.

I'm willing to bet you a hundred shorts' bucks that Mewtwo will be the gen six rep, with his new form incorporated somehow.

I'm relatively confident with my following vote.

Derpachu
Jiggles
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Mewtwo

'Course, the latter two certainly can't be predicted with the utmost certainty, but I'd still be willin' to bet on it.

Agreed, and this is my vote as well. Mewtwo will be in IMO, regardless of if he gets his Gen VI form or not.

 

[Splash_King]

That being said, Sakurai has a pretty massive team right meow, and I don't think he's going to suffer from time constraints this time.

In my opinion, this is Lucario's saving grace. If Namco wasn't givin' quite the helpin' hand, I'd be more worried for Lucario simply 'cause of time constraints, as I feel Pokemon would be one'a the first series' t' be targeted for character cuts. What with Pokemon havin' so many unique characters (not t' mention Pokeball 'mons), regardless of actual slots.

 

[Mr. MR]

What if we got both Mewtwo and Newtwo?
Maybe as a transformation.
Who knows.
But we still have to consider if Mewtwo is going to take up two spots or one.
What makes Newtwo important is he is the bridge that spans 6 generations.
We might just get Newtwo though
Or we might just get Mewtwo.

It is true that the removal of Mewtwo created backlash and it is likely that if Lucario is removed, it will likely create backlash. But is fan demand enough to convince Sakurai who is actually doing the work?

Lucario's popularity is what it is because of Smash. If Zoroark was in Smash, his popularity would be immortalized.
It is a difficult thing to remove a character, but the most likely one to be removed is Lucario.

I believe Red is staying because he represents the whole aspect of Pokémon.

Also you butts, Nintendo said via twitter yesterday that 3D Mario, Smash, and Mario Kart are going to be discussed in a Nintendo Direct PRIOR to E3, so keep up to date with that bizz.

Heard about it already

 

[Splash_King]

Sakurai ain't got removin' characters on his to-do list. Combined with Lucario's popularity, I'm very staunch in my opinion that Sakurai won't drop 'em unless time constraints get in the way or some huge issue on the disastrous level of copyright occurs.

Lucario's popularity is what it is because of Smash.

Lucario is popular 'cause he got a movie and was heralded as Gen 4's mascot. Game Freak's advertisement of the Poke is what got 'em such a huge fanbase. Lucario was put on the pedestal via campaigning (and also good design). Smash obviously helped it's popularity, but t' say Lucario wouldn't of been anywhere near as popular without that slot on the roster is a blatant lie.

 

[Mr. MR]

You're wrong there.

Lucario is popular 'cause he got a movie and was heralded as Gen 4's mascot. Game Freak's advertisement of the Poke is what got 'em such a huge fanbase. Lucario was put on the pedestal via campaigning (and also good design). Smash obviously helped it's popularity, but t' say Lucario wouldn't of been anywhere near as popular without that slot on the roster is a blatant lie.

Of all the Pokémon movies out there. Why isn't Zoroark as popular?
Why is Jigglypuff still popular?
I don't doubt that Lucario was popular without Smash but with Smash his popularity has been immortalized.

Without Smash Lucario's popularity would decline even faster.

 

[Splash_King]

> Implying Lucario's popularity is declining.

... Jiggles isn't popular. 'Sides amongst genwunners who remember that marker-wieldin' troll from the anime.

My theory behind it all is simply hype. Gen 3 came out when an entire new generation of youngin's didn't yet know 'bout Pokemon. Plenty'a new blood. As a result, Gen 4 was the first new Pokemon game for all'a that new blood. The generation shift of youngin's introduced to the series happened during Gen 5, so Zoroark lacked the amount'a potential popularity Lucario had thrown at 'em.

 

[HeyLolita]

Lucario is popular because he is widely liked by Pokemon fans, and THAT'S WHY he got into Smash. We know that TPC is hard to work with, but it's NEVER been stated that "They made Sakurai add Lucario". Lucario is popular because people still like him. He's still promoted to this day.

And, Jigglypuff isn't really popular anymore, outside of Smash. But this isn't the case for Lucario.

I don't even enjoy Lucario, but I know he's still popular. And regardless of where the popularity comes from, popularity is popularity.

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Mewtwo
Lucario

And don't forget that Mewtwo = Newtwo

 

[Mr. MR]

> Implying Lucario's popularity is declining.

... Jiggles isn't popular. 'Sides amongst genwunners who remember that marker-wieldin' troll from the anime.

My theory behind it all is simply hype. Gen 3 came out when an entire new generation of youngin's didn't yet know 'bout Pokemon. Plenty'a new blood. As a result, Gen 4 was the first new Pokemon game for all'a that new blood. The generation shift of youngin's introduced to the series happened during Gen 5, so Zoroark lacked the amount'a potential popularity Lucario had thrown at 'em.

Everything loses popularity without anything keeping it growing. Simple truth. Why do you think Dewey lost the election in 1948? Why do you think companies keep advertizing their product? People have short memories.

Lucario being in Smash immortalized his popularity. The decrease in popularity will be much slower. Suppose Zoroark was in Brawl instead of Lucario...

Zoroark would be the more popular one if that was the case and we would be arguing about Zoroark staying in Smash because of his popularity and uniqueness.

And don't forget that Mewtwo = Newtwo

That is true but it is still not the same.
That's like saying Matter = Energy which it does, but both are completely different.

 

[HeyLolita]

Except, this is a video game, and it doesn't actually matter.

If you vote for Mewtwo, you're voting for Newtwo pretty much.

UNLESS you guys want us to specify?

if so, then my vote would be

Mewtwo / Awakened Form

 

[Mr. MR]

Both may be equivalent but that does not mean they will play exactly like each other.

Zelda does not play like Sheik but Zelda = Sheik

 

[Splash_King]

Lucario's popularity in Smash is relevant almost entirely to his popularity amongst Smash fans only. Lucario is still widely promoted by Game Freak. In BW2, he's one'a the male protagonist's main Pokes in that animated preview ya might've seen. As such, he's catchable as a Riolu early in the game.

Lucario has regularly appeared in various Pokegames as more than just one'a the many catchable mosnters. In the original Mystery Dungeon, a Lucario is heralded as the best explorer evar. In Mystery Dungeon 2, Riolu is one'a the new playable starters/partners. In Ranger 2, Lucario is an important boss. In the anime, outside'a that one movie, Lucario and Riolu have appeared a shitton of times, includin' in the Gen 5 anime, with more relevance than just bein' random wild Pokes or some nub trainer's Poke.

Lucario's popularity is so superior t' Zoroark's because Game Freak made it so, not Smash. When Lucario was revealed as one'a the first Gen 4 Pokes, long before it bein' a character in Smash was leaked, speculation of it bein' legendary and just conversation over it was astonishingly common. For Zoroark, there wasn't anywhere near as much during both it's reveal and it's movie debut. Lucario started off stronger; with better potential; and Ninty simply fueled the fire.

 

[Mr. MR]

I see, he has been getting advertisement... But that also did not stop Pichu from getting removed. Last time I checked Pichu was also getting a lot of advertisement.

But we still have to discuss if Mewtwo is coming back as his old self or his new self or both.