England

[captainff]

Symptomatic of ENGLAND and how it is at the moment...... We have free speech, provided that we say exactly what we are told to say.



:crazy:

 

[Scream]

I agree with the above posts. What we had going was a very civil debate, if you could call it that, and I don't think any ill feelings were passed towards anyone, with the exception of maybe Tommy. :sick:

As long as there are no personal attacks, vulgar language, or threats, then just let it roll baby, that is what the off topic forums are there for.

Just my opinion.

 

[Squall7]

Err did it cross anyone's mind that perhaps Tommy was being so unreasonable that the posts had to go? Half of what he was saying was verging on illegal.

And Haz, I don't think the deletion had anything to do with you, if it did, then you would have been banned.

Fact of the matter is, is that it's when Tommy came into the discussion when things went sour. Sure, we all came up wth arguements, but at the end of it all, it didn't really matter. You can continue on with your arguements, but Tommy (IMO) had to be dealt with.

 

[miiguy]

Err did it cross anyone's mind that perhaps Tommy was being so unreasonable that the posts had to go? Half of what he was saying was verging on illegal.

And Haz, I don't think the deletion had anything to do with you, if it did, then you would have been banned.

Fact of the matter is, is that it's when Tommy came into the discussion when things went sour. Sure, we all came up wth arguements, but at the end of it all, it didn't really matter. You can continue on with your arguements, but Tommy (IMO) had to be dealt with.

Fair point Squall7. But there is nothing wrong with an explanation post is there? Not asking much as I was actually typing a response when it got deleted, confused me was (for a little while)
Did Tommy get banned then?

 

[Squall7]

Fair point Squall7. But there is nothing wrong with an explanation post is there? Not asking much as I was actually typing a response when it got deleted, confused me was (for a little while)
Did Tommy get banned then?

Ye I think so.

I'm not so sure that an explanation from anyone would be a good idea. Chances are, they'll be people disagreeing on what should be the final word on the subject, and asking for banning/deletion to be revoked. Though I can to see how it's rather frustrating to have something like that happen.

Especially considering how it's happened before - ABC was banned and everyone started hasstling the mods (I think anyway) about re-instating him. That time, they didn't even know what he did to get himself banned.

But I can definately say this, it's relatively hard to get banned. Usually requires swearing, extreme spamming or threatening behaviour. Heck, half the people on here that break all the little rules may only get a temp ban in some circumstances. If you go to a place like megatokyo, then it's much easier to get banned!

Guess we'll just have to debate without Tommy.

 

[captainff]

Guess we'll just have to debate without Tommy.

Shame.... because his enlightened attitude really helped. [/sarcasm]

 

[BrandonMcAuslan]

This is totally unacceptable! Why have two pages of posts been removed! This is the worst case on censorship I have ever experienced!

There were some really interesting discussion points raised and were being talked about. It was a nice debate as their were so many different points of view.

If people can not be mature enough to take part in debates then we live in unhappy times.

The thread was not racist (bar a few comments from Thomas).

May I suggest that we have a politics area that we may discuss future topics such as this or could the moderators not delete posts that they either do not understand or feel may offend a minority of members.

The great thing about forums is that you don't need to read everything, only topics of interest - so I really do not see why the posts were removed.

I'm not happy and I'm sure many other people aren't.

This is not the first time this has happened either - how about giving an explanation in the future? Sure, we are just members, but if we get pissed off, we can simply leave and then the forums will die (I've seen it before).

It's just not fair, when people have spent time to write a post and argue their point to have it removed without thought. It's rude more than anything.

100% agree. (have some rep too!):thumbsup:
I think we deserve an explanation why people have been banned... I've said this before...

 

[captainff]

I think we deserve an explanation why people have been banned... I've said this before...

I think we can all work out why people are banned.... for breaking the rules. Deleting posts, however, I think deserves an explanation, especially those which weren't offensive or breaking the rules......

That said, the mods are given the task of maintaining the forum and they have to do the things that they think are right. Not an easy task at the best of times.

 

[Haz]

That said, the mods are given the task of maintaining the forum and they have to do the things that they think are right. Not an easy task at the best of times.

Speaking from experience as a Moderator and a Forum Administrator (both for Free Web hosting companies, which were more busy than here) the job is not that hard. People here make out that it is some amazing task that requires expertise and to be on some kind of higher plain of existence.

Most forums that wish to stop a topic, lock it and move it to a 'Trash Section' - thus it still can be viewed and not added to. Deleting posts should only be done for Spam and something that is highly offensive.

I guess what is done is done, but it was rude and unprofessional.

 

[Squall7]

I think we can all work out why people are banned.... for breaking the rules. Deleting posts, however, I think deserves an explanation, especially those which weren't offensive or breaking the rules......

Most of our posts were in response to Tommy. He was breaking the rules, and I think it's worth the price to pay to get rid of him personally.

I suppose if you want to, you could look at the cached version of it, and repost what has been deleted (well, leave it at your own posts that you wish to retrieve.).
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...com+"England"Squall7&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk - Don't say I never do anything for ya! :wink:
P.S. If any mods get onto me about this, I'll gladly take the link down, and you'll have to do the same with your posts. I don't want to get banned for helping out!

That said, the mods are given the task of maintaining the forum and they have to do the things that they think are right. Not an easy task at the best of times.

I second that.

 

[DazzeL]

Thanks for that lengthy reply Squall, though I do take issue with some of it I'll give a proper reply later! Just wanted to quickly add that censorship is not the way to go here. Tommy's comments were not illegal but they were fairly extreme. But I think the best way to have resolved that issue would have been for everyone else to argue his points back. This was being done and tbh it all seemed very reasonable. The only way you really solve problems like this is if you can make the other person see their own unreasonableness. Simply censoring him solves nothing - he'll only come back in a later discussion, at a later stage, saying exactly the same things. Perhaps he would have ignored peoples points back and stuck to his guns but we should of given him longer.

 

[Squall7]

Thanks for that lengthy reply Squall, though I do take issue with some of it

People always do! Lol.

I'll give a proper reply later! Just wanted to quickly add that censorship is not the way to go here. Tommy's comments were not illegal but they were fairly extreme.

Actually, I think they were boardering on illegal. The denying for example, whilst not specifically against the law in itself (yet), it could be construed as trying to influence people about it, and possibly like 3 years Jail time... (or something like that. I did post some stuff about it before it got deleted).

But I think the best way to have resolved that issue would have been for everyone else to argue his points back.

That's what was happening. It's why he got so desperate in the end.

The only way you really solve problems like this is if you can make the other person see their own unreasonableness.

Yes, but if that is not an option, isn't the next best thing censoring. Whilst I agree that more should be done in society to prevent racism, if you're not capable of removing the infection itself (racism), then the next thing you can do is to quarantine it (censorship) to prevent the infection from spreading (sorry, been watching a lot of House recently...)

Simply censoring him solves nothing - he'll only come back in a later discussion, at a later stage, saying exactly the same things. Perhaps he would have ignored peoples points back and stuck to his guns. But the chance was not given.

As far as I understand the situation, he's been IP banned. If he were to pop back up, he'd get banned again in no time.

 

[Haz]

I disagree with the banning, it would of been far more productive and beneficial if we could of helped and educated Tommy on his misguided views.

From what I understand, he is a young boy with a narrow minded view on society, it's people like him that need help to steer them away from growing up to becoming racist yobs.

 

[Squall7]

I disagree with the banning, it would of been far more productive and beneficial if we could of helped and educated Tommy on his misguided views.

From what I understand, he is a young boy with a narrow minded view on society, it's people like him that need help to steer them away from growing up to becoming racist yobs.

You do realise that the likelihood of us being able to "educate" him over a forum, whilst for all we know, he could be being indocrinated by parents/peers/school etc. is incredibly slim. In the end, it wouldn't have worked, and for all we know, we could have had some other BNP kid or man posting on here as well. How would you choose to deal with that?

Besides, it's not really anyone's call but the mods.

Of course, this disagreement only goes to demonstrate why mods seldom tell other members the reason for banning people. You get people thinking "well, I didn't find it a big deal, so I'm sure everyone else would've coped". Well, it's not always the case.

 

[Haz]

You do realise that the likelihood of us being able to "educate" him over a forum, whilst for all we know, he could be being indocrinated by parents/peers/school etc. is incredibly slim. In the end, it wouldn't have worked, and for all we know, we could have had some other BNP kid or man posting on here as well. How would you choose to deal with that?

Besides, it's not really anyone's call but the mods.

Of course, this disagreement only goes to demonstrate why mods seldom tell other members the reason for banning people. You get people thinking "well, I didn't find it a big deal, so I'm sure everyone else would've coped". Well, it's not always the case.

The action renders the discussion pointless.