Evolution

[RPGMasterTurk91]

just because of the lack of a scientific answer does not mean a God. that's essentially what your arguement has been. if humanity cannot explain it the it's because of God. with the ants for instance, you're basically claiming that since we can't behave thier behavior, its because of God. no its not. we just haven't figured it out yet.


and now your doing the same thing you did in the "Meta is broken" thread. your offeeing up your opinions as fact despite the evidence pointing otherwise.

Well no the Meta thread is essentially opinion-based, and with that topic--majority rules is reasonable because it's deciding between two things for the people. Just because I said that your mind was closed and completely incapable of compromise doesn't mean I'm saying "mine are fact and you're wrong", I didn't think you were traumatized after I told you that. I did note that your perspective is too tight. If God really exists, then what I say is completely true. If not, then the opposite is true with me. However, I am saying that it only makes SENSE to see that God exists, that is how I view it.

The fact that we have all the technology that we have and that we have looked at ant behavior for decades and we still cannot determine what leads to their behavior isn't necessarily proof that there is God, that's not what the article is trying to prove completely. That's more of a "besides, [insert quick valid point]. It's more of a support; such tiny ants are so complex to humans who have developed so many different technologies yet we can't figure something that is seemingly so simple.

Ok, let's talk about the spider:

As one cleans his/her house, he/she might see a spider that has woven its web in a corner of the house. If he/she realizes that he/she ought to think about this creature which is normally of no importance to anyone, he/she will see new doors being opened for him/her. This tiny insect he/she sees before him/her is a miracle of design. There is perfect symmetry in the web the spider has woven. If, by any chance, he/she wonders how a tiny spider could achieve such astonishingly perfect design, and if he/she does some quick research, he/she will encounter some other extraordinary facts: the thread a spider uses is thirty percent more flexible than a rubber thread of the same thickness. The thread the spider produces is of such a superior quality that men use it as a model for the manufacture of bullet-proof vests. One must wonder how a spider is taught how to construct such complex-looking things with such precision and no faults.

 

[her01771]

i have some proof.
THEY HAVE FOUND NOAH'S ARK!
it was on a mountain in syria in 3 pieces.
they have proof. and guess wut? dinos still exist. they have found so much proof thus, there was no evolution. and dont say no. recently they have found a inactive volcano w/ anciet minerals. it has some animals thought to be extinct, such as the calocath. and guess wut? during the "millions" of years, the calocath has not changed.

 

[Napalmbrain]

i have some proof.
THEY HAVE FOUND NOAH'S ARK!
it was on a mountain in syria in 3 pieces.
they have proof. and guess wut? dinos still exist. they have found so much proof thus, there was no evolution. and dont say no. recently they have found a inactive volcano w/ anciet minerals. it has some animals thought to be extinct, such as the calocath. and guess wut? during the "millions" of years, the calocath has not changed.

The 'Noah's Ark' discovery was a hoax, and I have no idea what 'volcano' you're talking about- Coelacanths live in the Indian Ocean, and while it's true they haven't changed much in millions of years, that just means that were able to get by without needing to evolve, and it doesn't change the mountains of evidence I already mentioned.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

i have some proof.
THEY HAVE FOUND NOAH'S ARK!
it was on a mountain in syria in 3 pieces.
they have proof. and guess wut? dinos still exist. they have found so much proof thus, there was no evolution. and dont say no. recently they have found a inactive volcano w/ anciet minerals. it has some animals thought to be extinct, such as the calocath. and guess wut? during the "millions" of years, the calocath has not changed.

Actually, presently Noah's Ark is thought to be in Mount Ararat in Turkey. Look it up.

@Napalmbrain, now you're saying that the coelacanths didn't evolve much because they didn't need to? Again, this is what I mean by attributing genetics with "knowing" what to give and not to give to its species. Bees remain largely unchanged as well, but you're saying that evolution is caused due to a mutation in the genes, then adapting to the surroundings with those mutated genes. However, when you talk bout the Coelecanth, you note that it didn't "need to evolve" to get around and thus didn't. Couldn't the Mutations in the genes occur with anything--even if it doesn't seem favorable for that creature? Now you're saying only the useful, necessary things will come with evolution, yet before you questioned why "whales have leg bones that are obsolete to them". But you also noted that it is by chance what these species get, but nonetheless evolution will occur. And when it does, like with the antelope, they were either begin a craving the ant, or develop an easier way to eat the bug even though the species are alive to this day??

Let's talk about the bee:

The bactericide (bacteria-killing) property of honey is named "the inhibition effect". Experiments conducted on honey show that its bactericide properties increase twofold when diluted with water. It is very interesting to note that newly born bees in the colony are nourished with diluted honey by the bees responsible for their supervision - as if they know this feature of the honey.

When a flower has already been visited, the honeybee can understand that another bee has earlier consumed the nectar of that flower, and leave the flower immediately. This way, it saves both time and energy. Well, how does the bee understand, without checking the flower, that the nectar has earlier been consumed? This is made possible because the bees which visited the flower earlier marked it by leaving a drop on it with a special scent. Whenever a new bee looks in on the same flower, it smells the scent and understands that the flower is of no use and so goes on towards another flower. Thus, bees do not waste time on the same flower.

Honeybees are one of science's great mysteries because they have remained unchanged for 20 million years. Now that's is a big blow to the evolutionists!

 

[Napalmbrain]

@Napalmbrain, now you're saying that the coelacanths didn't evolve much because they didn't need to? Again, this is what I mean by attributing genetics with "knowing" what to give and not to give to its species.

I explained this already. Genes don't "know" anything. For whatever reason, coelacanths have successfully managed to survive all these years without having an environmental imperative to evolve.

Bees remain largely unchanged as well, but you're saying that evolution is caused due to a mutation in the genes, then adapting to the surroundings with those mutated genes. However, when you talk bout the Coelecanth, you note that it didn't "need to evolve" to get around and thus didn't. Couldn't the Mutations in the genes occur with anything--even if it doesn't seem favorable for that creature? Now you're saying only the useful, necessary things will come with evolution, yet before you questioned why "whales have leg bones that are obsolete to them". But you also noted that it is by chance what these species get, but nonetheless evolution will occur. And when it does, like with the antelope, they were either begin a craving the ant, or develop an easier way to eat the bug even though the species are alive to this day??

Evolution is not a perfect system. Perhaps it's better to think of it like a game of trade-offs: for example, a giraffe has a long neck to allow it to eat from tall trees, but it also means that the blood has to travel much further to get to the head. Basically, evolutionary advances often come with consequences.

Vesitigial organs, like those leg bones in the whale, are things that were once useful but no longer fulfill their primary role. The whale's ancestors lived on land, but they evolved to live at sea (unlike most of their mammal cousins such as us). As they evolved to live there, the leg bones become useless. They're not hindering the whales, they're just useless. Like I said, evolution is not perfect- it doesn't iron out these vestigial organs, and it has to work with what's already there.

Incidentally, whales are an excellent example of this- for animals that live in water it's much better than to have gills, but whales have lungs instead due to their mammalian ancestry, which means they have to keep coming up for air every few minutes. They can't just evolve gills straight away. But who knows, maybe in a few million years they will evolve gills.

 

[ARav989]

all of the posts in this thread are tl;dr.

So anyway, I do believe in evolution. There's just too much logic behind it for you to ignore it. I think the only people who don't believe in evolution are people who don't understand how it works/could work.

 

[metal134]

it has some animals thought to be extinct, such as the calocath. and guess wut? during the "millions" of years, the calocath has not changed.

This is a lose-lose argument. If you accept the fact that these organisms have remained unchanged for millions of years, then you have to accept that the bible is wrong because if the bible is right, then the Earth is only a few thousand years old. If you accept that the Earth is only a few thousand years old, then the argument that they have remain unchanged for millions of years holds no water.

My take on it: First (and this is all based on whether they were actually found. Based on the Noah's Ark reference in the same post, I'm skeptical) , it would not be the first time we have found animals thought to be extinct. I fail to see how it means anything that we thought an organism was extinct, but they turned out to still be around. Secondly, why would they remain unchanged? Probably beacuse their environment, the inside of a volcano, can be a relatively unchanging environment. Some volcanos go dormant. But if a volcano remains active, it will be pretty much the same environment after 1,000 years, 1,000,000 years or even 1,000,000,000 years.

 

[Shadow*91]

mabye for you but to many this reinforces our position that religion is false. evolution is natural occurance that happens on its own, without any outside force acting on it. evolution usn't foolproof for sure, but it just is a fact of life people must accept.

 

[metal134]

mabye for you but to many this reinforces our position that religion is false.

If you were responding to me, that's pretty what I was saying. The poster I was quoting was using that argument to "prove" how the bible was right and evolution was wrong.

 

[Napalmbrain]

Update which may be of interest: yesterday was the 150th anniversary of the publication of The Origin of Species.

 

[AndThen?]

Everyone here is ridiculously stupid. How do you manage to stay cool-headed, Napalm?

RPGMasterTurk91, try to create your own arguments rather than copy and pasting stuff of other sites.

 

[Napalmbrain]

Everyone here is ridiculously stupid. How do you manage to stay cool-headed, Napalm?

I'll admit, it's not easy. I have to keep reminding myself that most people don't really understand about the evidence for evolution, and it doesn't help that there are websites like 'Answers in Genesis' and 'Conservapedia' spreading misinformation and lies about the subject.

 

[her01771]

im not going to argue. it doesn't matter what you think.
but the thing is that 70% of ALL wars start because of different beliefs.

 

[irape4free]

creationism = ppl who failed biology and are to religious lets keep religion out of school now :lol: @andthen? im not stupid.

hey can some do me a favor search penn and teller creationism and copy and paste part 1,2 and 3 please this will aid the ppl for evolution in this debate greatly.

 

[PrinceLink]

Everyone here is ridiculously stupid. How do you manage to stay cool-headed, Napalm?

You've been quite angry as of late. Or more blunt at the least.