Which Religion are you?

[Gaz]

Religion is like a job, you should choose which religion you are. you shouldn't be born into any religion just like ur not born into an job, just because ur father is a doctor, doesn't mean you are to, so if your dads a cathloic, what are you? shouldn't be a cathloic, make your own mind up on it. imo people of such a young age shouldn't have a religion, but a phase where the do what the heck the want with no boundries.

 

[TortillaChip520]

well my dad's a chemist, and i want to be a chemist.:scared:

 

[JD1269]

Agnostic here. I believe in a higher power, I just don't know what. I've been delving into religions and science a lot lately trying to find something that makes sense to me, but I'm failing thus far.

I also practice buddhism to an extent, but for some reason I don't really consider myself buddhist. I think it's because I've never been strongly devoted to it.

Oh, and I believe in Karma and fate, as much as I hate the concept of fate. =/

 

[Koukin]

Heheh. Wow, my post brought an intelligent discussion around. That's like... A first for this forum. Heheh.
Naw. Anyways, I only read Squalls and Monsteroids first replies to my post. And Squall, I have to say, that's exactly how I feel. "So long as nobody tries to change me, I won't change them." It really bugs me when people try to change my life, saying I'll be happier this way. I'm happy as is.
Monsteroid, I totally see where you're coming from too, and I agree. Starting a cult-like thing always ends up bad. Religion spawns too much conflict. And yeah, knowing that we'll never know everything is kinda somethin' to... Sorta live by, for lack of a better way to put it.

 

[Skippy]

Either 1. There is no creator, and there was no way to stop the girl from being shot.
2. There is a creator, but s/he allowed the girl to be shot, furthermore it was part of God's plan. However, if it were part of God's plan, how could we condemn the instument of God (the killer)?
3. God blinked and missed it...

Or option 4: There is a God and allowed the girl to be shot but did not want it to occur and the killer was not part of anyone's plan.

 

[Y0SH1 X]

Religion is destroying the world.

 

[Koukin]

Religion is destroying the world.

Well, yeah. That's kinda obvious. It already has. xP

 

[Y0SH1 X]

Well, yeah. That's kinda obvious. It already has. xP

yep.yep.
im christian....but i dont really like religion...i just want to have a good relationship with God.

 

[Squall7]

Or option 4: There is a God and allowed the girl to be shot but did not want it to occur and the killer was not part of anyone's plan.

And what reasoning is there behind this? If the almight God didn't want something to happen, it would not happen, surely...

The girl and the killer are connected. Either both were God's plan or neither was.

 

[Skippy]

And what reasoning is there behind this? If the almight God didn't want something to happen, it would not happen, surely...

Things happen all the time that God doesn't want to happen. He didn't want Adam and Eve to sin and spread death to mankind. He wants everyone to follow him but few do. He doesn't want sickness and depraved humans to wreak havoc. He doesn't want terrorists. He doesn't want death at all. He wants peace and prosperity. He wants unity. He doesn't want Satan's influence on mankind.

Sometimes bad things happen to good people by random chance -
Ecclesiastes 9:11 "I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all."

However, just because things do happen that he doesn't want to happen does not mean he is powerless or that he will never step in and rights the wrongs of Satan's world.

The girl and the killer are connected. Either both were God's plan or neither was.

Ok, neither of them are.
God doesn't want people to die and doesn't want people to kill other people.

 

[Squall7]

Things happen all the time that God doesn't want to happen. He didn't want Adam and Eve to sin and spread death to mankind. He wants everyone to follow him but few do. He doesn't want sickness and depraved humans to wreak havoc. He doesn't want terrorists. He doesn't want death at all. He wants peace and prosperity. He wants unity. He doesn't want Satan's influence on mankind.

Funny how some feel they can speak on behalf of God. What you're desribing is human's own wants and desires about the world, not of God's.

Sometimes bad things happen to good people by random chance -
Ecclesiastes 9:11 "I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all."

All it says is that sometimes people don't get what they deserve. However, the previous bit may deem that quote to be infering that God is in the little things that make up chance - hence chance is based on God, not the reverse:

Cultivare the eye that finds God in ordinary things. Some of you are expecting a blinding revelation of God to come to you in the future - and it may well happen - but don't focus so much on what may lie ahead that you miss what God is doing in your ordinary moments.

However, just because things do happen that he doesn't want to happen does not mean he is powerless or that he will never step in and rights the wrongs of Satan's world.

So, what you're basically saying is that when he chooses to, he can come in at any time and right wrongs. Why didn't he do that in the many cases in the past? There's been slaughter of countless people, there's been genocide in more than a single occassion, why does he not interfere with those wrongs?

Ok, neither of them are.
God doesn't want people to die and doesn't want people to kill other people.

So, human actions can be beyond God? People can do what they're not meant to do, what they have no right to do, that they can harm God's humble and obiding creations without consequences from God him/herself?

Most mere mortals have to cope with the basis of what they can literally do, and what they can't. For an immortal to have a desire for something not to happen, and for that thing to happen in the first place undermines the desire and more importantly the morality of the immortal.

Sorry, It's not that I deny the possibility of God, it's just I question the assumptions people make of him/her.

 

[Skippy]

Originally Posted by Skippy
Things happen all the time that God doesn't want to happen. He didn't want Adam and Eve to sin and spread death to mankind. He wants everyone to follow him but few do. He doesn't want sickness and depraved humans to wreak havoc. He doesn't want terrorists. He doesn't want death at all. He wants peace and prosperity. He wants unity. He doesn't want Satan's influence on mankind.

Funny how some feel they can speak on behalf of God. What you're desribing is human's own wants and desires about the world, not of God's.

Have you actually read the Bible? The whole thing is about what God wants for us, what he hopes we will do and not do, why, and what the consequences are either way. I can quote a handful of verses if it would help. But that also depends on your feelings toward the Bible. I believe it is the inspired word of God, so if it's recorded in the Bible that he doesn't want us to die, then I take it to mean that that's what he really wants and not just the desire of a human.

So, what you're basically saying is that when he chooses to, he can come in at any time and right wrongs. Why didn't he do that in the many cases in the past? There's been slaughter of countless people, there's been genocide in more than a single occassion, why does he not interfere with those wrongs?

God is essentially letting things run along with us in charge for the time being. That will not always be the case though. And those who have suffered and died in the past will have a much better life, while those who committed such atrocities will have none.

So, human actions can be beyond God?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. We have been granted free will. We can do or not do whatever we want, regardless of what God says.

People can do what they're not meant to do, what they have no right to do, that they can harm God's humble and obiding creations ...

Yes

... without consequences from God him/herself?

No

 

[Elfman]

I'm Luthern Christian.

 

[Squall7]

Have you actually read the Bible? The whole thing is about what God wants for us, what he hopes we will do and not do, why, and what the consequences are either way. I can quote a handful of verses if it would help. But that also depends on your feelings toward the Bible. I believe it is the inspired word of God, so if it's recorded in the Bible that he doesn't want us to die, then I take it to mean that that's what he really wants and not just the desire of a human.

At best the bible is an interpretation of God's will put into book form from people that are fallible and have bias. It's then translated into a few languages before appearing in English. It's then interpretted by the reader. In essence, what you quote from is a very much diluted version of what (at best) God's meant to have said. On top of that, you're saying that you (a fallible being) is capable and has the right to say on behalf of a immortal, all-seeing, all-knowing, infallible being, that you know what he thinks about these things? Do you see the flaw in your arguement?

God is essentially letting things run along with us in charge for the time being. That will not always be the case though. And those who have suffered and died in the past will have a much better life, while those who committed such atrocities will have none.

He's "letting us run things"? It explains why attrocities happen, but it wouldn't account for the fact that we seem to be screwing our world up. If you see your child doing something he shouldn't be doing, because he will be hurt by it, do you stand by and hope they don't hurt themselves too badly, or do you say "no, don't do that"? As for the better life part, that's a gamble on if God (and afterlife) exists. If it doesn't you've wasted your precious one-time only life on worshipping a concept which doesn't even have a real form, based on man's desire to control man.

Yes

Why can they?

No

This bit is debatable, is it the work of God or the work of the Devil? God's often used as a tool to either bail people out of danger (God spoke to me, or it was a miricle, a gift from God etc), or to condemn people (you're gay, and God hates you, and that give us the right to hate you too etc...).

Personally I feel that people need to get the concept of God straight in their head, before even trying to influence others.

 

[Skippy]

At best the bible is an interpretation of God's will put into book form from people that are fallible and have bias. It's then translated into a few languages before appearing in English. It's then interpretted by the reader. In essence, what you quote from is a very much diluted version of what (at best) God's meant to have said. On top of that, you're saying that you (a fallible being) is capable and has the right to say on behalf of a immortal, all-seeing, all-knowing, infallible being, that you know what he thinks about these things? Do you see the flaw in your arguement?

It's not really a flaw per se. It goes to how we each view the Bible. I view it as the inspired word of God. You appear to not and this makes the discussion difficult because we don't really have a common foundation to go off of. My points will be based on the Bible, yours are based on your own ideas which may be influenced to a certain extent by the Bible, but also by other philosphies that are far outside the Bible. But even if you account for translational and copyist errors over the years, the concepts and events are still there (and as his written inspired word, I believe that God has made sure that the conceptsm events, and ideas in the Bible have been preserved even if the exact to-the-letter text is gone. The entire Old Testament deals with what God told Israel to and what would happen if they did and if they didn't do it. And time and time again they didn't do it and suffered the consequences. God tells us what he wants us to do and we have the free will to either go along with it or not.

He's "letting us run things"? It explains why attrocities happen, but it wouldn't account for the fact that we seem to be screwing our world up.

The reason we're screwing up the world is because we were not created to rule this world and lack the capabilities to do so.

Jeremiah 10:23 I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps.
Ecclesiastes 8:9 All this I have seen, and there was an applying of my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, during the time that man has dominated man to his injury.

Adam and Eve lived under God's rulership until they caved into Satan's temptation and were cast out. They were on their own at that point, and by extension all their descendents down to this day.

If you see your child doing something he shouldn't be doing, because he will be hurt by it, do you stand by and hope they don't hurt themselves too badly, or do you say "no, don't do that"?

You teach your child beforehand what not to do in order to not get hurt. This is what God does. He does not force us to comply though, and if we don't, we shouldn't be surprised if we get hurt.

As for the better life part, that's a gamble on if God (and afterlife) exists. If it doesn't you've wasted your precious one-time only life on worshipping a concept which doesn't even have a real form, based on man's desire to control man.

If man is using religion to control man, then they are not following God.

Why can they?

Free will. We can choose to obey God or not. There are consequences for either course of action.

This bit is debatable, is it the work of God or the work of the Devil?

The bad consequences from our actions are our own work, and by extension the Devil's since he is the original source of our sinful, imperfect nature.

God's often used as a tool to either bail people out of danger (God spoke to me, or it was a miricle, a gift from God etc), or to condemn people (you're gay, and God hates you, and that give us the right to hate you too etc...).

And people that make expressions like that are generally lashing out and making statements not supported by the Bible.