Smash Bros Brawl Sexist?

[Squall7]

I completely understand what you are talking about, I just think that, until (if it even does) it happens, it should just be left and not thought about. Some people may think that you're saying it could be sexist, when I know you're not.

Actually, the impression I got was that everyone understood what he was saying, but he just didn't get the biiger factor. Until someone complains, you cannot counter-complain.

So I think that this should just be left until some ***** actually tries to get Brawl banned for being sexist, like the woman moaning about Resi Evil 5 being racist.

Right... Cos if you've got a problem with something, and you're female, you're obviously a *****... /sarcasm.

If a feminist came up with something that nobody else initially saw wrong, wouldn't it be more intelligent to actually hear what she would say before countering it? Otherwise you just come off as an ignorant mysogenist.

Also, I think it's not a good idea to compare this to Resident Evil 5, due to the fact that we already know about many of the things in this game, including any countering factors such as Samus, being very capable, independent and a brilliant example of a strong woman. Also, factor in that Zelda isn't exactly "harmless" and that whilst she needs to be resuced in some games, she also fights along side you. She is therefore far from the "innocent, incompetent girl" that you may be able to read into with Princess Peach.

And to be fair, we're talking about a hypothetical problem and aggression with a concept not based in reality, rather than an already existing, and ultimately denied complaint (the response was in effect denied, and she was called a lot of things that quite frankly shouldn't have been said).

 

[Foxy]

Actually, the impression I got was that everyone understood what he was saying, but he just didn't get the biiger factor. Until someone complains, you cannot counter-complain.


Right... Cos if you've got a problem with something, and you're female, you're obviously a *****... /sarcasm.

If a feminist came up with something that nobody else initially saw wrong, wouldn't it be more intelligent to actually hear what she would say before countering it? Otherwise you just come off as an ignorant mysogenist.

Also, I think it's not a good idea to compare this to Resident Evil 5, due to the fact that we already know about many of the things in this game, including any countering factors such as Samus, being very capable, independent and a brilliant example of a strong woman. Also, factor in that Zelda isn't exactly "harmless" and that whilst she needs to be resuced in some games, she also fights along side you. She is therefore far from the "innocent, incompetent girl" that you may be able to read into with Princess Peach.

And to be fair, we're talking about a hypothetical problem and aggression with a concept not based in reality, rather than an already existing, and ultimately denied complaint (the response was in effect denied, and she was called a lot of things that quite frankly shouldn't have been said).

I couldnt agree more.

Look at the differences between smash bro's and resident evil.

A princess getting kidnapped by a giant piranha plant and then a plumber has to save her, or it could be vice versa, smash bros will have story mode for different charecters. What history is behind that? other then the stereotyped princess being kidnapped.

But resident evil could be understood, an American soldier, in Africa, killing the people. Wih the history of slavery and human rights and such you can see a reasoning behind the outburst, it may not be 100% thought through, but you can see why she said it.

 

[JCpackers05]

ahhhh i see where your coming from Mingus and i apologize. but i wont lie, i dont see any relation with Brawl and being sexist so i dont see anything of the sort happening.

 

[Monsteroids]

I agree with Squall7 :worship:

He knows lots of good big words.

 

[WiiDS]

The thing is, yes, there are people who nit-pick and look for every little thing to complain about but if someone were to be looking for a glaring example of sexism in gaming they would overlook brawl and target something else first. Also, if their argument was games presenting women as helpless there would be so much evidence to counter it that their point would instantly become moot. This is all besides the fact that the "save the princess" formula for stories has been around for ages and if someone were to really bring up their problems with it now and try to use SSBB as an example, their argument would be discredited quickly.

 

[masonb15]

I agree with Squall7 :worship:

He knows lots of good big words.

Yes and I agree with him 100%.

 

[Lewi T]

Actually, the impression I got was that everyone understood what he was saying, but he just didn't get the biiger factor. Until someone complains, you cannot counter-complain.

I didn't say you in particular, it's just some of the earlier posts seemed to imply that Mingus was stating that this game is sexist, when he wasn't.

Right... Cos if you've got a problem with something, and you're female, you're obviously a *****... /sarcasm.

I was using the term '*****', as in a female, I often refer to women as bitches, I wasn't implying that the female who has the problem is a *****, I was just referring to her as '*****'.

If a feminist came up with something that nobody else initially saw wrong, wouldn't it be more intelligent to actually hear what she would say before countering it? Otherwise you just come off as an ignorant mysogenist.

If you're referring to the Resi Evil 5 incident, then I read everything that she had to say, thought about it, read it again, then commented appropriately.

Also, I think it's not a good idea to compare this to Resident Evil 5, due to the fact that we already know about many of the things in this game, including any countering factors such as Samus, being very capable, independent and a brilliant example of a strong woman. Also, factor in that Zelda isn't exactly "harmless" and that whilst she needs to be resuced in some games, she also fights along side you. She is therefore far from the "innocent, incompetent girl" that you may be able to read into with Princess Peach.

I only made the comparison, because, after all that happened with the Resi Evil 5 incident, my conclusions were that her judgements didn't have enough backing, and in this case, if anyone were to claim that SSBB is sexist, they wouldn't have much ground to stand on. So the comparison was in the sense that in both cases, the arguments for racism and sexism, were not worthy.

 

[Squall7]

I didn't say you in particular, it's just some of the earlier posts seemed to imply that Mingus was stating that this game is sexist, when he wasn't.

I disagree. They were saying that they couldn't see how it could be considered sexist.

I was using the term '*****', as in a female, I often refer to women as bitches, I wasn't implying that the female who has the problem is a *****, I was just referring to her as '*****'.

Oh right. So it was not meant in a derogatory way. Kinda like when people refer to their female partners as their "ho" or "old ball and chain", only you say it about all women.

Just a question: Does that actually work for you? I know about the whole "treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen" method, but I would think you wouldn't get very secure women that way...

If you're referring to the Resi Evil 5 incident, then I read everything that she had to say, thought about it, read it again, then commented appropriately.

It was more about this issue: Sexism in Smash Bros.

I only made the comparison, because, after all that happened with the Resi Evil 5 incident, my conclusions were that her judgements didn't have enough backing, and in this case, if anyone were to claim that SSBB is sexist, they wouldn't have much ground to stand on. So the comparison was in the sense that in both cases, the arguments for racism and sexism, were not worthy.

True. But then nobody (to my knowledge) has claimed that it's sexist. So my original point, why provide a counter complaint to a non-existent one?..

Anyway, I think this thread has died...

 

[asdfghjkl]

gee, ppl do feak over small things, just cus i call a girl "toots" she calls the cops....

 

[Lewi T]

I disagree. They were saying that they couldn't see how it could be considered sexist.

I disagree with that - too an extent. It could be considered that the earlier posts were implying that Mingus was saying that this game is sexist. That is why I made my initial point that this topic should not be thought about unless somebody actually did complain, as some people may quickly jump to a conclusion in that Mingus was saying that this game is sexist. However, it could also be believed that they were just saying that they couldn't see how it could be considered sexist - it depends on the person...if they were just saying this then I apologise, but since we don't know then it's a matter of opinion.

Oh right. So it was not meant in a derogatory way. Kinda like when people refer to their female partners as their "ho" or "old ball and chain", only you say it about all women.

Precisely.

Just a question: Does that actually work for you? I know about the whole "treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen" method, but I would think you wouldn't get very secure women that way...

Well you think wrong. It works when I want it to, it depends on how it is said. The majority of the time it is said in a joking fashion, but sometimes not, depending on the situation.

It was more about this issue: Sexism in Smash Bros.

(Was this statement aimed at me:

If a feminist came up with something that nobody else initially saw wrong, wouldn't it be more intelligent to actually hear what she would say before countering it? Otherwise you just come off as an ignorant mysogenist.

)
Because I didn't counter this made up argument, nor did I say that I would counter any argument before listening to hear what she said. Again, in my initial post, I was simply saying that this topic needn't be discussed unless somebody were to actually complain.

True. But then nobody (to my knowledge) has claimed that it's sexist. So my original point, why provide a counter complaint to a non-existent one?..

Exactly, that is why I had originally said that there was no reason for this topic to be discussed. I had never once provided a counter complaint to this non-existent one.

 

[Mingus]

Lol, ok everyone. I simply wanted to bring some political and possibly interesting topics to the board for people to discuss rather than a hundred threads about what the roster would look like. I didn't even really believe myself when making the thread but I thought people might enjoy something different. don't worry though, I won't do it again, lol jk.

 

[Squall7]

Lol, ok everyone. I simply wanted to bring some political and possibly interesting topics to the board for people to discuss rather than a hundred threads about what the roster would look like. I didn't even really believe myself when making the thread but I thought people might enjoy something different. don't worry though, I won't do it again, lol jk.

Fair enough, though I probably wouldn't have picked those few subject areas.

Now the concepts of "cartoon violence" and drawing parellels of Smash Bros with Tom and Jerry, and then comparing it to "adult violence", may be a good topic for discussion: Why is some violence okay for children to watch and not others? If we watch a cartoon cat hit a cartoon mouse with a big mallet, why can't we let them watch a real life person hit another person with a real mallet?

Should consequences be shown of each? Is the tone influential? And why are we okay with violence when it's non-fictional? (e.g. news broadcasts of documentaries).

 

[Mingus]

If we watch a cartoon cat hit a cartoon mouse with a big mallet, why can't we let them watch a real life person hit another person with a real mallet?

Well it really depends, when that real person hits another with a mallet will his head flatten and then be fine a second later. Will he act dizzy and then continue to chase after the person who hit him, and will his arms and legs twitch while the real blood seeps from his head and drips from the mallet. there's a big difference.

 

[Squall7]

If we watch a cartoon cat hit a cartoon mouse with a big mallet, why can't we let them watch a real life person hit another person with a real mallet?

Well it really depends, when that real person hits another with a mallet will his head flatten and then be fine a second later. Will he act dizzy and then continue to chase after the person who hit him, and will his arms and legs twitch while the real blood seeps from his head and drips from the mallet. there's a big difference.

True, but shouldn't we be teaching children that violence has consequences? Surely we're doing them an injustice to portray episodes of violence without consequences?

Of course, any of that assumes a "monkey see, monkey do" idea (hyperdermic syringe model, whereby it's falsely assumes that people are passively influenced by media texts). Are adults merely desensitised to violence or is it more about the need for a resistence to inspiration? (heck, after watching old Kung Fu movies, most people are inspired to recreate the actions they've just seen).

In a nutshell, what is it that makes children unworthy of watching serious (depictions of) violence that adults "enjoy"? Same goes for horror films/games/books.

I think it's a case of self discipline - the ability to stop yourself from recreating violence (no matter what its form is) that inspires you. That's not to say that all violence has a destructive inspiration (it also has a provides fear as inspiration, as well as morally and educationally inspiration).

 

[Mingus]

A child should be slowly exposed to violence, sex, terror, and other types of extreme viewing. Depending on the age, they may not fully understand what it is they are seeing. What is good and what is wrong. I for instance attempted to act an impropriate scene from a movie with my baby sitters daughter at the age of five. I had no understanding of what it was. I also had no understanding of why I was punished for it. The way in which children are exposed to these things are important as well. Children really do need to see most of these things (with an exception to sex.) Children need to be prepared for the world to come, sheltered children see nothing their wholes lives and are then tossed into society with no understanding of social boundaries or real life situations.